Tea Party chides Obama health care plan, pork spending Pat Gurganus of Columbus holds signs she made for the Tea Party rally Tuesday at the Lowndes County Courthouse. Photo by: Kelly Tippett
More than 200 citizens gathered at the Lowndes County courthouse Tuesday evening in a show of solidarity against the policies of President Barack Obama during a Columbus Tea Party rally.
Beneath looming rain clouds, groups and individuals lined the sidewalk and lawn of the courthouse, some displaying signs expressing their dissatisfaction with the current administration's active and proposed policies.
The rally was staged by a loose-knit group of like-minded local business people to protest what they see as irresponsible spending on behalf of the federal government.
Columbus lawyer Joseph Randolph Lipscomb, one of the rally's organizers and speakers, said the short-term goal of the Columbus Tea Party and the nationwide Tea Party movement is to send a message to Washington demanding fiscal responsibility. The long-term goal, he says, is to replace politicians who won't listen.
"Eventually, I hope we will kick all of these bums out of congress," said Lipscomb. "I'm referring now to essentially two groups. One is socialists and the other is pork-barrel politicians."
Lipscomb hopes the issues discussed at the Columbus Tea Party motivate those in attendance to vote politicians in favor of bills such as Obama's health care plan and cap and trade -- a policy tool with a mandatory cap on emissions -- out of office.
He says the group stops short of endorsing candidates to replace the "pork-barrel politicians."
"I think people can make their own decisions," said Lipscomb.
Lipscomb was the last speaker Tuesday evening and finished his remarks just as a heavy rain began to fall. He was preceded at the podium by former Eupora Mayor Henry Ross, Scott Berry, owner of T.S. Berry furniture sales, and Sid Caradine, owner of Lincoln Home Bed and Breakfast.
Lipscomb says the group also claims no partisan affiliation.
"I couldn't even tell you what political party (the other speakers) belong to. None of us care. What we care about is being American," he said.
Topics addressed by several speakers included the proposed health-care bill, the federal deficit, foreign policy, Democratic South Carolina Rep. Joe Wilson's outburst during Obama's recent national address and a perceived lack of adherence to the Constitution on behalf of the federal government.
Ross, who concluded his address saying he may appear on Mississippi's congressional ballot next year, entreated citizens and the government to halt unnecessary spending.
"We need lower taxes and the government to live within its means," said Ross. "It's up to you and me."
Berry gave a quick recap of the 9-12 Project march held in Washington, D.C. Saturday. Berry attended the event and told the Columbus crowd what it was like to be among what he estimated were more than one million people.
"It was the most unbelievable feeling I've ever had in my life," said Berry.
He spoke of the optimism he felt seeing so many people invested in the future of the country because, he says, the public has stopped keeping tabs on the government.
"We haven't kept ourselves abreast of the policies of our government," he said.
Caradine opened his remarks by saying the federal government has overstepped the boundaries of powers granted by the Constitution before listing several instances of inappropriate government spending decisions.
Following the rally, Rex Dickerson, owner of Rex's Rentals, voiced his support for the Tea Party's theme of fiscal responsibility.
"The biggest thing is we cannot continue spending the money they're trying to spend up there. It's impossible. Everything the government has ever been involved in has cost way more than the original projections," said Dickerson.
HK | 9/16/2009 11:46:00 AMmark as inappropriate Good for you--this is a great movement.. I hope D.C. will wake up and take notice!!
Michelle | 9/16/2009 12:53:00 PMmark as inappropriate I can't help but hear a hint of sarcasm in this article. Why are most articles at the CD written with this tone? I would like to challenge Mr. Browne to actually attend one of the meetings or sitting down with Mr. Berry or Mr. Lipscomb and interview them. I have been to a few of the meetings and these people that attend the rallies are hard working honest people democrat and republican that just don't like where this country is heading. They believe that this country is worth fighting for and we have a right to have our voices heard and they are not being heard right now. The lawmakers in Washington are supposed to represent the people and if they won't we will find replacements that will.
KJ | 9/16/2009 1:25:00 PMmark as inappropriate Well, Mississippians Against Socialism should be a hugely popular group. Considering that Mississippi receives $2.02 for every tax dollar it sends to Washington (2nd highest in the country behind New Mexico). Of course, I don't expect this lot to know that. The same way I didn't expect them to protest the last administration's wild spending spree (happily passed by the then-Republican congress). It's not debt that's the issue here. It's debt created by Obama that's the issue. I wish these folks would just be honest about it. But then, I wish they were knowledgeable, too. Instead of book-smarts we have beck-smarts. Please, just stay home and watch American Idol. You did enough damage the last 8 years, and the rest of us have had enough.
Matt | 9/16/2009 2:07:00 PMmark as inappropriate KJ you are 100% correct. I don't remember protests when our white republican president was pissing away our surplus on an unjust and unprovocated war. These same people didn't mind Bush trampeling our constitution specifically our 4th amendment rights when it came to muslims. Most of these people are mad that we have a black president and the fact that he is also a democrat. These are the same crazies that stand up and say Obama is not a U.S. citizen. The same kind of people that don't believe that we have been to the moon. They wear their flag shirts and flag undewear and believe they are losing their country because a black man is in power. Get over it people!
Michelle | 9/16/2009 2:42:00 PMmark as inappropriate MJ & Matt - I believe you are both a little misguided. Maybe too much ABC/NBC news. I was never a Bush fan and I personally was pissed and didn't agree with the first round of bailouts however when I saw they kept coming and the hand outs kept coming I felt I needed to at least try to do something. If you sit back and do nothing you have no room to complain. I personally believe that people need to be responsibly for their own lives and NOT expect people to bail them out or give them a hand out.
And the initial War on Terror was provoked Terrorists slammed airplanes into 3 building and a field in PA killing over 3 THOUSAND people or have you forgotten that?????????
Michelle | 9/16/2009 2:43:00 PMmark as inappropriate MJ & Matt - I believe you are both a little misguided. Maybe too much ABC/NBC news. I was never a Bush fan and I personally was pissed and didn't agree with the first round of bailouts however when I saw they kept coming and the hand outs kept coming I felt I needed to at least try to do something. If you sit back and do nothing you have no room to complain. I personally believe that people need to be responsibly for their own lives and NOT expect people to bail them out or give them a hand out.
And the initial War on Terror was provoked Terrorists slammed airplanes into 3 building and a field in PA killing over 3 THOUSAND people or have you forgotten that?????????
Michelle | 9/16/2009 2:43:00 PMmark as inappropriate MJ & Matt - I believe you are both a little misguided. Maybe too much ABC/NBC news. I was never a Bush fan and I personally was pissed and didn't agree with the first round of bailouts however when I saw they kept coming and the hand outs kept coming I felt I needed to at least try to do something. If you sit back and do nothing you have no room to complain. I personally believe that people need to be responsibly for their own lives and NOT expect people to bail them out or give them a hand out.
And the initial War on Terror was provoked Terrorists slammed airplanes into 3 building and a field in PA killing over 3 THOUSAND people or have you forgotten that?????????
pc | 9/16/2009 3:10:00 PMmark as inappropriate I was at the Tea Party yesterday. I want people to know that I am not against Obama because he is black. That has absolutely nothing to do with my opposition to his politics. I have voted for a black man for President. His name is Alan Keyes. I did not vote for him because he is black but because I agree with his views on how our government should be run. I was not happy with George Bush in many areas, nor the Republican congress who went on a maddening spending spree. I don't care who does the running of the government as far as their party or their color....I want less government and I want less spending. I have to live on the income that comes into my household and I believe our government should do the same.
Brutus | 9/16/2009 4:03:00 PMmark as inappropriate Michelle--The war in Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11 apart from the conflation that was Cheney/Bush/Rice.
I would really like to see an article such as this address actual issues such as what we do with the broken health care system. Yeah, government spending is bad so Mississippi should send back the extra $1.02 it gets for every tax dollar paid. We are a net welfare state supported by the teat of this federal government these guys are protesting! Were it not for federal assistance MS would be a 3rd world country. So stop being a hypocrite...the people who have reason to complain are in CA, NY, and IL...because they are paying for welfare for MS!
Also, I'd really love to know who Mr. Lipscomb voted for in the last congressional election. I suspect it might be the biggest pork barrel Senator of them all--Senator Thad Cochran. Hypocrite.
mike | 9/16/2009 4:46:00 PMmark as inappropriate so much for no party affiliation, they're all a bunch of republicans. randolph lipscom and sid carradine both live on 16th section land. you had your vote on nov. 4th. not that any of these people voted democrat, stop trying to stir up a civil war, as you will surely destroy the country you claim to love.
Michelle | 9/16/2009 4:50:00 PMmark as inappropriate Brutus - Please note I stated the intial War of Terror. I didn't ever agree with going into Iraq. Also, I'm not on welfare nor do I take part in any of those programs. I don't agree with my tax $$ going to these programs that let people live off of it forever. I look at it this way. If you keep giving people a hand out they are never going to have the drive or desire to go out and get/work for something. We then create a society of people that think the goverment and "Rich People" owe them something since they were dealt a bad hand in the game of life. Your life is what you make it. Every living breathing person has the ability to go out there and make a living doing something. I was a teenage mom. I came from a broken home. I watched my drunk step father beat the crap out of my mom on a daily basis. I could have lived off the welfare system for the rest of my life. Did I? No, I went out got my GED, took some college, did a good job at work and moved up in the world.
sp | 9/16/2009 6:37:00 PMmark as inappropriate Please get the real facts along with underlying problems with this bill before reaching to conclusions. Many people are simple unimformed and do not bother to dig and look at the politics beneath.
matt | 9/16/2009 6:53:00 PMmark as inappropriate Where were these protests during bush then? They are made up of angry white people most of whom know very few facts about whats going on. What taxes have been raised by obama? If obama would have let the banking system gm and our insurance companies fail where would we be now?
ED | 9/16/2009 8:44:00 PMmark as inappropriate Wow!! Everyone who doesn't agree with Obama's politics must me prejudice. That is what everyone goes to first, race. I would have gladly voted for a black Rep. over a white Dem. any day of the week. Why, b/c that is the politics I am most in line with (not 100%, but mostly). There is one thing for sure, politicians lie to get elected. Not some, all of them. I didn't care for Bush but I agreed with most of his politics. And someone above mentioned Obama's citizenship, to date, there has never been a birth certificate produced. It has only been "said" that there was a document produced from Hawaii (not birth certificate, some document). Call it racist if you want but McCain was required to produce his.
matt | 9/16/2009 9:50:00 PMmark as inappropriate Obama has produced his birth certificate and it has been independently verified. There was also a record of his birth in two newspapers in hawaii the day after he was born. This is the sort of idiotic things that the right has been reduced to. you have become a fringe party of crazies. If republicans continue this nonsense there will be only one mainstream party left.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K2AcNp8e1h0
Have we not visited the moon either? your statement is so laughable and speaks directly to my point of this being a racial issue. He's not a white man and he has a funny name so therefore he is not one of us. I suggest you do some research before you make such wild statements. Watch the video I posted or the one on youtube of bill O the clown even saying its a stupid argument. It seems that republicans now believe that if they say something enough they can make anything true and there are actually people out there such as Ed that will believe anything told to them by boss limbaugh. Its amazing that the most weak minded people talk the loudest. I bet Iraq attacked us on 9/11 also.
Mary | 9/16/2009 10:53:00 PMmark as inappropriate First of all, KJ did you say unprovocated?? Were the 3 planes that slammed into the towers 9/11/01, did you not see that or remember?? Maybe you need a history lesson. Matt-I am not an Obama/or his administration fan, I am not Republican. I am not racist. It is sad that every time someone disagrees with him, they are automatically assumed to be a racist, redneck, republican. People like you, who automatically jump to race issues every time there is a disagreement, are the ones that will keep our country racially divided. Maybe you should do some research so you actually have something of substance to say next time. And why don't YOU GET OVER IT!!
Mary | 9/16/2009 10:56:00 PMmark as inappropriate First of all, KJ did you say unprovocated?? Were the 3 planes that slammed into the towers 9/11/01, did you not see that or remember?? Maybe you need a history lesson. Matt-I am not an Obama/or his administration fan, I am not Republican. I am not racist. It is sad that every time someone disagrees with him, they are automatically assumed to be a racist, redneck, republican. People like you, who automatically jump to race issues every time there is a disagreement, are the ones that will keep our country racially divided. Maybe you should do some research so you actually have something of substance to say next time. And why don't YOU GET OVER IT!!
Mary | 9/16/2009 10:58:00 PMmark as inappropriate First of all, KJ did you say unprovocated?? Were the 3 planes that slammed into the towers 9/11/01, did you not see that or remember?? Maybe you need a history lesson. Matt-I am not an Obama/or his administration fan, I am not Republican. I am not racist. It is sad that every time someone disagrees with him, they are automatically assumed to be a racist, redneck, republican. People like you, who automatically jump to race issues every time there is a disagreement, are the ones that will keep our country racially divided. Maybe you should do some research so you actually have something of substance to say next time. And why don't YOU GET OVER IT!!
V | 9/17/2009 12:07:00 AMmark as inappropriate On one side we have people saying that anyone against Obama must be racist. The other side says that they can't complain without it becoming a racist issue. Where's the middle ground? Isn't the truth that there *are* many people who are judging him solely on his skin color? But isn't it also the truth that there are many people who couldn't care less what his skin color is, they just don't agree with his ideas?
This is the problem we are having right now. Too many people seem to be going on gut reactions to what people are saying rather than reading and researching for themselves and forming their own educated opinions. I cannot tell you how many times I have heard someone (or received an email, a facebook status update, etc.) who is repeating something they heard from someone else but didn't bother to verify.
I have never seen our nation at such a standstill with conversing rationally with one another. It seems like our nation has stopped even trying to listen to one another's viewpoints. If we refuse to even listen, how can we ever find a compromise that will lead to progress?
My personal thoughts on the tea party--and please, feel free to disagree but please also keep an open mind and try to see other viewpoints. I will be glad to hear your thoughts as well.
I do understand that there is a lot of concern about health care reform and I certainly have no problem with people wanting to discuss these concerns. I am still educating myself about the proposed health plan and I'm not sure whether it will be able to work or not. One of the things I want to research is why certain programs--such as Medicaid, Medicare, and CHIP--are commonly accepted, but a grander version of these is causing an uproar.
The only issue I have (as stated by a previous poster) is that all of a sudden, there are many issues to be protested. However, the majority of these issues have been around for YEARS. Pork spending? I've been reading about that my entire life. It was at an all-time high in the previous administration, and it continues to be a huge problem now. The federal deficit has been an issue for years, as well. It has grown enormously over the last decade, so I don't see that as a new problem either. But we didn't protest these things then, so why the sudden movement? The bailouts *are* a new concern...but they weren't voted on solely by the President...were they?
These are my concerns: that many of these "new" concerns weren't being protested last year, when they were as big of a problem as they are now; the fact that we have been reduced to name-calling and repeating unverified information and conspiracy theories (on both sides) instead of finding out the truth and having civilized debates or discussions; the fact that our country cannot seem to progress with everyone so determined to be right and anyone who disagrees with them must be an idiot.
Please...please try to talk to one another. Please check facts before sending information on. Please think it through and try to see the other side's viewpoint before jumping to conclusions. Let's focus on how to make our nation better instead of always focusing on the negative.
V | 9/17/2009 12:10:00 AMmark as inappropriate Mary, can I ask you about this statement:
"First of all, KJ did you say unprovocated?? Were the 3 planes that slammed into the towers 9/11/01, did you not see that or remember?? Maybe you need a history lesson."
I am trying to see what KJ wrote but I must be missing it. However, are you saying that we invaded Iraq due to 9/11? We invaded Afghanistan because of Bin Laden and 9/11. Wasn't Iraq invaded because there was concern that there were "weapons of mass destruction" being kept over there?
Michelle, I just wanted to say that I appreciate how you write your posts. I don't necessarily agree with everything you have said, but I do like that you have stated your opinions without the need to name call or degrade other posters.
I do think there is confusion (including me as I just realized re-reading the posts through) on the war that is being talked about. I don't believe the initial poster who brought up the war (unprovocated, etc.) was speaking of Afghanistan, but the war in Iraq. I also got confused on that and drew the wrong conclusion. There was definitely a need for the initial actions, in my opinion. I did not agree with invading Iraq.
I can see your point of view and certainly understand where you are coming from. I am a single parent. I basically made a poor choice in who to marry when I was younger. We were divorced and I have been raising my son on my own ever since. I went back to college after the divorce and while it was tough, I have now been in the professional world for going on 7 years and earned my Master's last year.
Again, I am not sure about the proposed health care plan and I am trying to learn more about it. I have personal experience with trying to cope with going from CHIP benefits (where nearly everything is covered with minimal copays) to paying for coverage through work because my $28,000 salary didn't qualify us anymore. Between coverage, prescription costs, and copays, I frequently have to budget $300 a month for medical expenses--and I'm told that's an okay plan, there are worse out there. I am a hard worker and have done everything I can to earn the most possible in my field, yet I still find myself wondering how much I really need to go to the doctor, because I sure can't afford it this month.
I'm not sure what the solution is...I don't want more people feeling like they don't have to work because the system will provide for them. But then I also know that there are countries that do have national health care plans that seem to work very well for them. It's definitely going to take more research on my part.
curt | 9/17/2009 8:10:00 AMmark as inappropriate what type of tea did they serve hot or cold?
sweet or unsweet?
Brutus | 9/17/2009 8:44:00 AMmark as inappropriate Michelle- I applaud your pulling yourself up from your unchosen background. No one here is advocating unending welfare for people to live on forever. In fact, that is supposed to be impossible today thanks to the reform package pushed through Congress by Republicans in 1996 and signed into law by Bill Clinton.
Nevertheless, welfare is a program that should provide temporary assistance for temporary problems. I do not know a single individual that would prefer welfare to a good job. The right wing uses that caricature to demonize welfare recipients.
Additionally, I highly doubt "your tax $$" are going to these people. MS takes in $2 for every $1 in taxes we pay. We get way more than we give. If you are truly opposed to welfare then you should petition the state government to stop sucking the federal teat. MS is like a piglet that engorges itself on the tax $$ of citizens from the rest of the USA. We are a socialist state being supported by others who look at us just like you look at your proverbial (and mostly non-existent) welfare queen.
Matt | 9/17/2009 9:13:00 AMmark as inappropriate Everything is not made a race issue by me. It is the loud angry mobs that say obama is a muslim or obama isn't a citizen. These people act like they are so sure of themselves. Well you know obama is a muslim and our constitution doesn't allow a kenyan to be president. This is the stupid crap that is obviously and overtly racist. A poll last night shown on the news reported that over a third of republican responders either were positive or were waiting to pass judgment on whether obama is the antichrist. The republican party has been hijacked by these idiots and most of the officials in the party have to play to these crazy people. You can disagree with me all day but making up wild stories about our president is pointless. The only recent president that has gone against the constitution was George Bush. George Bush had no regards for the 4th amendment when detaining american citizens. Oh and by the way just because the bush administration repeated time and time again that iraq had something to do with 9/11 that just is not true. Bush is responsible for over 4,000 american deaths and countless other coalition deaths. You people need to realize the war was for nothing. We have gained no security from it.
observer2 | 9/17/2009 9:35:00 AMmark as inappropriate What's so bad about being a racist and a traitor? Anymore these are traits admired by all the liberals in America. Maybe some of them stayed home watching soaps but enough made it to the polls to give a racist and a traitor enough votes to be the Chief czar. My hat's off to all who showed up at the court house and I want to be at the next one. Doesn't it make you wonder why the opposition like KJ and his cohearts aren't brave enough to show themselves at one of these meetings? Would "cowards" be fitting as the answer in one word?
Matt | 9/17/2009 9:52:00 AMmark as inappropriate If I would have known about the meeting I would have been there for sure. I would argue with you about the racist and traitor argument but I would be wasting my breath. you would try to make a point about guilt by association like hannity or bill O the clown or boss limbaugh. Guilt by association does not work as blown up in the face of hannity live on fox news after one of the debates.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w4CHewSv-Xw
You are just one of the sore losers that can't believe that people weren't happy and will never be happy with the republican party again. The world has changed and you are on the wrong side of history. We are moving forward while you live in the past. You can't go back to how it was. There was one positive republican left in my eyes John Mcain and even he sold out to the religious right in the last election by appointing an unqualified sarah palin to be his running mate. You and the entire party are out of touch. Most people aren't radical like you and most of the religious right.
matt | 9/17/2009 9:55:00 AMmark as inappropriate A funny video about one of our heroes. LMAO
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrzXLYA_e6E
observer2 | 9/17/2009 10:27:00 AMmark as inappropriate Matt, are you actually admitting to be on the same street as KJ? Pitiful. If you are referring to me in your name calling(a last resort of liberal dems) I happen to be an independent, just a registered voter who loves the name of Washington and will fight to the death for Red , White and Blue. Sounds to me like You're out in left field somewhere lost in a daze of rhetoric. Open your eyes and see what BO is doing if you can. Some are probably too blind and hopelessly lost forever. Hope you're not one of the KJ followerers-if so-too bad. Election day Nov 2010 is D Day. What will you do then? I think you still have the freedom to speak, so come on out to the next meeting.
The blog will concentrate of my concerns as a retired attorney about the imminent and growing threats to our Constituton and our form of government. We have reason to be very afraid of what is happening.
THE TRUTH ABOUT THE HEALTHCARE BILLS ?
Well, I have done it! I have read the entire text of proposed House Bill 3200: The Affordable Health Care Choices Act of 2009. I studied it with particular emphasis from my area of expertise, constitutional law. I was frankly concerned that parts of the proposed law that were being discussed might be unconstitutional. What I found was far worse than what I had heard or expected.
To begin with, much of what has been said about the law and its implications is in fact true, despite what the Democrats and the media are saying. The law does provide for rationing of health care, particularly where senior citizens and other classes of citizens are involved, free health care for illegal immigrants, free abortion services, and probably forced participation in abortions by members of the medical profession.
The Bill will also eventually force private insurance companies out of business and put everyone into a government run system. All decisions about personal health care will ultimately be made by federal bureaucrats and most of them will not be health care professionals. Hospital admissions, payments to physicians, and allocations of necessary medical devices will be strictly controlled.
However, as scary as all of that it, it just scratches the surface. In fact, I have concluded that this legislation really has no intention of providing affordable health care choices. Instead it is a convenient cover for the most massive transfer of power to the Executive Branch of government that has ever occurred, or even been contemplated. If this law or a similar one is adopted, major portions of the Constitution of the United States will effectively have been destroyed.
The first thing to go will be the masterfully crafted balance of power between the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial branches of the U.S. Government. The Congress will be transferring to the Obama Administration authority in a number of different areas over the lives of the American people and the businesses they own. The irony is that the Congress doesn't have any authority to legislate in most of those areas to begin with. I defy anyone to read the text of the U.S. Constitution and find any authority granted to the members of Congress to regulate health care.
This legislation also provides for access by the appointees of the Obama administration of all of your personal healthcare information, your personal financial information, and the information of your employer, physician, and hospital. All of this is a direct violation of the specific provisions of the 4thAmendment to the Constitution protecting against unreasonable searches and seizures. You can also forget about the right to privacy. That will have been legislated into oblivion regardless of what the 3rd and 4th Amendments may provide.
If you decide not to have healthcare insurance or if you have private insurance that is not deemed "acceptable" to the "Health Choices Administrator" appointed by Obama there will be a tax imposed on you. It is called a "tax" instead of a fine because of the intent to avoid application of the due process clause of the 5th Amendment. However, that doesn't work because since there is nothing in the law that allows you to contest or appeal the imposition of the tax, it is definitely depriving someone of property without the "due process of law.
So, there are three of those pesky amendments that the far left hate so much out the original ten in the Bill of Rights that are effectively nullified by this law. It doesn't stop there though. The 9th Amendment that provides: "The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people;" The 10th Amendment states: "The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are preserved to the States respectively, or to the people." Under the provisions of this piece of Congressional handiwork neither the people nor the states are going to have any rights or powers at all in many areas that once were their s to control.
I could write many more pages about this legislation, but I think you get the idea. This is not about health care; it is about seizing power and limiting rights. Article 6 of the Constitution requires the members of both houses of Congress to "be bound by oath or affirmation" to support the Constitution. If I was a member of Congress I would not be able to vote for this legislation or anything like it without feeling I was violating that sacred oath or affirmation. If I voted for it anyway I would hope the American people would hold me accountable.
For those who might doubt the nature of this threat I suggest they consult the source. Here is a link to the Constitution:The link appears to be going to the domain www.archives, but is really going to the domain archives.gov.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html
And another to the Bill of Rights: The link appears to be going to the domain www.archives, but is really going to the domain archives.gov.
http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/bill_of_rights_transcript.html ;
There you can see exactly what we are about to have taken from us.
Michael Connelly
Retired attorney,
Constitutional Law Instructor
Carrollton, Texas
mrobertc
matt | 9/17/2009 10:53:00 AMmark as inappropriate Nice copy and paste. Lol I don't know where to begin on that. If you have a 100,000 deductible no that is not acceptable insurance because it is not helpful. The point of everyone being required to have insurance is to cut cost. If coverage is not mandated with a penalty we would still have people making our cost rise because they have no insurance. The public option as said by Obama is not all the healthcare changes will be about and is not even the most important part. And alot of the claims in the copy and pasted article are absolute lies. Obama will not be in your bank account. I guess there just can't be a civil discussion about these things because the right just makes up lies and believes the BS. Im sorry to tell all of you but healthcare reform will pass this time and you will see that the world will not end.
Gogetum | 9/17/2009 11:21:00 AMmark as inappropriate Matt, you're worse off than I thought. Please change you news sources. You're not getting all the facts from the LEFT STREAM media, ie- NBC, CBS,ABC and CNN. From the way you sound, maybe you're wasting your money on the NY times. Pitiful is right. You probably don't even know that BO has a trial date in Jan 2010 to put up or shut up. Check it out, Matt. Haven't you heard that about 90 percent of American citizens are happy with their plans? Naturally it's freeee to illegals so they couldn't be more pleased. Tell us how you will be saving money and have better quality healthcare when the Gov is your provider? Will you go ahead and explain it to us? I'm sure all would be interested in your story.
Now that you see you're on the wrong side of the fence, come on in from the daze of rhetoric in left field and slide into home plate. Come on home boy.
matt | 9/17/2009 11:57:00 AMmark as inappropriate home boy? your an idiot and I read nothing of substance in your statement. You can copy and past someone elses ideas. How impressive!!! We are already providing the money for the uninsured to be treated. The hospitals charge extra to cover the people that will not pay in turn the insurance companies have to pay more out therefore they are charging us the consumer higher fees. I don't read the NY times but i bet you probably love Fix news and their "fair and balanced coverage". I am ok with the insurance that I pay for but I have never had a catastrophic illness or injury. I have however been laid up in the hospital my appendix about to burst and my doctor waiting hours for approval from blue cross. That was when I was in college. My father had to put up the money which we luckily had for them to hurry me to surgery. That is not right and beyond not fair. They did in the end pay for my surgery but if my family were poor I would have been stuck in a room waiting on approval of a necessary surgery. This is not acceptable in the richest country in the world.
Neil | 9/17/2009 12:01:00 PMmark as inappropriate Let's see, from what I read above...Left Stream is ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, NY Times. But what about Fox NEWS? Aren't they Right Stream?
It would be nice to have media that shares the news without telling me how to think and feel. That's what real reporting and journalism is. The news these days is so polarizing and borderline hateful. Even one network attacking the other for how they "report" the news. Each news reporter trotting out poll after poll and pundit after pundit to agree with them...the same for EVERY NETWORK. What a joke on "we the people." I call it the "dumbing down" of America.
Neil | 9/17/2009 12:06:00 PMmark as inappropriate Let's see, from what I read above...Left Stream is ABC, CBS, NBC, CNN, NY Times. But what about Fox NEWS? Aren't they Right Stream?
It would be nice to have media that shares the news without telling me how to think and feel. That's what real reporting and journalism is. The news these days is so polarizing and borderline hateful. Even one network attacking the other for how they "report" the news. Each news reporter trotting out poll after poll and pundit after pundit to agree with them...the same for EVERY NETWORK. What a joke on "we the people." I call it the "dumbing down" of America.
Neil | 9/17/2009 12:16:00 PMmark as inappropriate By the way, I think most of us are SATISFIED with the medical care given by our healthcare providers. They often do a wonderful job in a very difficult environment, but the insurance companies...what a joke! Pre-exisiting conditions, dropping sick people, outrageous deductibles, and citizens having their lives ruined by medical costs are just a few of the things that need to be "fixed." We need REFORM, but not anything to raise our taxes, the deficit, or to wipe out an industry that provides jobs.
tim | 9/17/2009 12:20:00 PMmark as inappropriate curt why are you so stupid to ask what kind of tea you are such an idiot....
Melody | 9/17/2009 12:22:00 PMmark as inappropriate Hey Matt, what's the problem? Gogetum asked you to explain something. We're still waiting for answers. Seems all you can do is fall back on the typical name calling tactic that liberals use. He's right in saying , that's too bad. It's obvious you don't watch fox or listen to the kings of conservative talk. You'll just repeating what you hear from the LEFT STREAM. Let me see now, that sounds a whole lot like copy and paste. Gotta go to work now, maybe we all should, huh.
curt | 9/17/2009 12:26:00 PMmark as inappropriate tim since you want to call me an idiot for asking a question. why don't you meet me at walmart row 10 around 6 o'clock tonite and call me an idiot.
matt | 9/17/2009 12:35:00 PMmark as inappropriate Melody what question would you like answered?
I answered how it would save money. I am sure in the final bill there will be a amendment requiring proof of citezenship. What else would you like to know. I would love for you to impart on me some of your vast knowledge that you have learned from rush limbaugh glenn beck and fox news.
KJ | 9/17/2009 12:46:00 PMmark as inappropriate @Mary: "First of all, KJ did you say unprovocated"
Ummm...no. My comment is right here above the text field that you used to post your own comment. Really, there simply isn't any excuse for this. How can you expect to have any credibility when you can't adequately perform 50% of the requirement for participating in a discussion?
@Observer2: I would point out that your comments about the current president being a "traitor" are indicative that the real issue here is not with the actions of this president (or this congress). It appears that the issue for you, like so many others on the dwindling right, is that it isn't a republican president betraying his constitutional duties or a republican congress spending the money of future generations.
It's humorous that, after labeling Obama a "racist" and a "traitor" you then slam name calling as "a last resort of liberal dems." Lost in your own "daze of rhetoric" is any concrete discussion of "what BO is doing," why "what BO is doing" is problematic, or an alternative to "what BO is doing." All there seems to be from the right is a constant whine and an endless parade of creative fictions aimed at attacking people trying to implement solutions (the merits of which could be debated, but aren't) for real problems.
Health insurance reform is a necessity, but insurance in general also needs to be reformed. Insurance companies have failed their customers methodically and deliberately with the aid of legislators from both parties over the course of decades. Our overall spending on insurance won't really change that much under this legislation. What will change is where the spending happens. Currently around 30% of health insurance dollars are spent on marketing and administrative costs. On the administrative front, many of these costs are unnecessary and are created by the insurance industry so that insurance providers, not health care providers, can retain a bigger slice of pie. Costs under government programs in the health sector (not counting the GWB prescription drug entitlement) have grown slower than they have for private insurers.
So what's the beef with this program? Can't rightly be socialism, since Tea Baggers weren't protesting how much extra money Mississippi receives from the federal government.
Can't rightly be how much money is being spent, since Tea Baggers weren't protesting a doubling of the national debt ($3 trillion or so) under the first 6 years of the Bush administration.
Can't rightly be traitorous or unconstitutional acts by the president, since Tea Baggers weren't protested warrantless wiretapping; or the suspension of habeas corpus (that's your right to access the criminal justice system so that the government isn't just arresting people and disappearing them without recourse); or the illegal torture program implemented by the last administration; or the fabrication of intelligence when none was needed; or the veto of increased compensation and benefits for our armed forces. [OK, that last one wasn't traitorous, it was only despicable.]
The beef can't rightly be racist in nature, since no Tea Bagger is a racist (see above comments). It can't be because the current president is a Democrat, because most Tea Baggers seem to be independents (see above comments).
But there must be a beef, because nobody like to complain just to complain, right? There are excellent reasons for these Tea Parties. Problems are being identified, plans are being laid, solutions are being implemented. Speed bumps are being placed, barriers erected, and borders protected. Bravo, Tea Baggers. Bravo.
JC | 9/17/2009 12:52:00 PMmark as inappropriate The boorish Joe Wilson is a Republican, Mr. Browne.
matt | 9/17/2009 1:14:00 PMmark as inappropriate KJ what a great thought out post. I am glad to see someone else on here with some sense.
Carl | 9/17/2009 1:28:00 PMmark as inappropriate The majority of americans do not wont a government ran health care plan, so why is it being forced down our throats...and why is it, that those who do oppose it are automaticaly considered a racist? This sounds like a desperate attempt to get this bill past..
Matt | 9/17/2009 1:36:00 PMmark as inappropriate Do seniors like their medicare? Why would you have to have a government plan? Do you not already have an insurance company? Who is talking about racist? If you like your plan you can keep it. I don't understand what these people are talking about. Who is forcing you to have a government plan?
matt | 9/17/2009 1:40:00 PMmark as inappropriate people are racist when they say obama is not eligible to be president. They are racist when they so oh well don't you know he is a undercover muslim. Obama is a christian american born citizen. Even if he were a muslim which he isn't that would not be a problem with me. I would much rather a muslim run this country then a southern baptist. i would love for carl to tell me how he or anyone else is labeled a racist just by disagreeing with the healthcare reform. do tell
Melody | 9/17/2009 2:13:00 PMmark as inappropriate It's funny how people hang themselves when given enough rope. It looks to me like KJ is out in left field wondering around with Matt. If you go back and look real close , Observer 2 didn't mention the President or Obama when he spoke about racist and traitors. However, KJ did. Obama has had the same problem lately--it's called "foot in mouth desease". Like trying to change the issue from "healthcare" to "insurance reform". That's a good one. Get together with Matt out there and see if you can come up with something better than that.
Breaks over-going back to work.
Carl | 9/17/2009 2:21:00 PMmark as inappropriate Matt,argueing is a waste of time,which you apparently enjoy doing,you have a right to your opinion and so do I..as far as answering your questions, simply read the comments posted on this page..take care and dont be so quick to judge.
matth | 9/17/2009 2:21:00 PMmark as inappropriate observer2 | 9/17/2009 9:35:00 AM mark as inappropriate
What's so bad about being a racist and a traitor? Anymore these are traits admired by all the liberals in America. Maybe some of them stayed home watching soaps but enough made it to the polls to give a racist and a traitor enough votes to be the Chief czar
Who was that talking about Melody. My point exactly the right makes up things even when there is strong evidence to the contrary.
Is obama a citizen? Is he a muslim? i asked for some of your wisdom from hannity bill o and limbaugh but you have yet to provide any.
Gogetum | 9/17/2009 2:27:00 PMmark as inappropriate What college did Matt attend? His defination of racism is way outta wack. Better go to the dictionary, Matt. If you don't have one , how about this:
rac⋅ism /ˈreɪsɪzəm/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [rey-siz-uhm]
-noun 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
Maybe the foot in mouth thing is contageous that Melody mentioned.
matt | 9/17/2009 2:33:00 PMmark as inappropriate Gogetum
I went to a private school you probably would have not had the grades to attend. Please explain my definition of racism. I say calling obama a non citizen because he is not white yes that is overtly racist. calling obama a muslim that is also racist. not the simple implication would bother me but implying that being a muslim is a terrible thing does.
observer2 | 9/17/2009 2:45:00 PMmark as inappropriate matth, look at what you posted. Do you see the word "president" or "obama" written there anywhere? KJ is the one who added those words to the picture. FYI-CZARS are not elected. You and KJ need to start watching fox and listening to the kings of talk. You haven't even been told about ACORNS latest story, you know, those people who gave BO his first job and that he wants to advise him in his presidency. The left stream media will not tell you about that. Come on over to the MAIN STREAM, FOX NEWS, and bring KJ with you.
Now you won't be in the dark so much.
Matt | 9/17/2009 2:53:00 PMmark as inappropriate you implied obama are you kidding me. you don't even know what you were saying. Please tell me who started the czars in america. fox news is mainstream? your simpleton views bring such joy to my day. its like watching sarah palin try to give a interview. i am so glad the right has fallen so far so fast. you have been reduced to anger because you are truly losing your country. You are not the majority any longer.
KJ | 9/17/2009 4:48:00 PMmark as inappropriate @Melody: Again with the name calling? *yawn*
@Observer2:
"Maybe some of them stayed home watching soaps but enough made it to the polls to give a racist and a traitor enough votes to be the Chief czar"
ACORN, huh? Please see Melody's comment above about changing the issue. But, since you brought it up...
Every year during the Bush administration, ACORN Housing Corporation received more than $1 million (from 2001, when George Bush became president, until 2008, the Bush administration provided over $13 million to ACORN). The numbers are a little higher if we go back to 1994. Over the last 15 years ACORN has received about $54 million.
Something else happened in 1994...what was it...oh yeah, Republicans won control of the House and Senate.
So where were the Tea Baggers? The FOX newsies, the Becks and the Limbaughs? [I know, I know. Rush spent a lot of time at Rite Aid filling prescriptions, but let's not allow this to devolve into a bunch of incidents and accidents, hints and allegations, spinning in infinity.] Where were they in 1994? in 1995? in 1996? in 1997? in 1998? in 1999? in 2000? in 2001? in 2002? in 2003? in 2004? in 2005? in 2006? in 2007? in 2008? ACORN was there.
Oh...wait...you know who wasn't president any of those years? Obama.
Just like with spending, socialism, and all the other serious "issues" that Tea Baggers are suddenly so "worried" about, ACORN is a red herring. A ruse. Or is it?
$54 million...obviously this is great use of the time of every Tea Bagger. I can't wait til ya'll bring ACORN to its knees and save our country more than $1 million a year. All our problems will be over, happy days will be here again, cue the Age of Aquarius and let the sunshine in. You know what? I'm going to thank you in advance:
THANK YOU, Tea Baggers. Thank you for pointing out this problem and allowing a Democratic congress to do what Republicans would not: forcibly remove ACORN from the public trough.
Any more petars that you need set?
Melody | 9/17/2009 9:18:00 PMmark as inappropriate Well , finally back from work. Looks like KJ and his boys are never at work, oh well, some of us po folk have to work for a living. They probably think I'm a rich little white girl, typical for the white man to think this way so can't hold that against them. I do wish they would take the advice on the other post about switching to a more in depth coverage of what's happening in our world. Than LEFT STREAM info brain washes them so much they can't see straight. Reminds me of raising mushrooms-have to keep them in the dark all the time and feed them nothing but manure. That's why they like to put down everybody who tries to give a common sense opinion , and will go to their graves putting down the Bush administration. LEFT STREAM BRAIN WASHING. Again , it's pitiful.
ed | 9/17/2009 9:26:00 PMmark as inappropriate OH, a youtube video must be legit!! Well Matt, I am sure the radio and t.v. stations that ran the stories of the whole birth certificate thing (CNN, ABC, and FOX) are no match for your investigative skills. The one in particular I watched on CNN had someone from Obama's party on there defending the fact that a document was produced. When he was asked specifically about a birth certificate, he said and I quote "A document from Hawaii was produced, this is rediculous!!" But now you, like so many others have labled me a racist only b/c I question and don't agree with the Obama. Now, you also brought up him being Muslim or not. I don't know and have never posted my opinion nor will I. However, what I have seen with my own eyes on several occasions (only about the first 2 months he was in office), was our nations President completely ignore our national anthem and the posting of the U.S. flag. While everyone else in the camera shot were covering their hearts or saluting (like some of us do), Obama stand there looking bored with no respect. One last thing then I am done with you b/c I know you will just call me racist or dumb or whatever you have to tell yourself to feel better. It was also all over the news a few months ago how Obama told the French how ashamed he was of the U.S. (CNN, NBC, and FOX)
matt | 9/18/2009 9:05:00 AMmark as inappropriate The youtube video shows bill oreily saying that the birthers are wrong. i also have the link directly to a picture of the birth certificate and a link that shows the 2 newspapers from the day after he was born.
This shows the raised seal the signature and also has statements from the person over vital records and the governor of hawaii saying that he was born in hawaii. if you don't believe all these people I don't know what would prove it to you. Melody who is the white man? And please show me a video of obama being disrespectful to our flag or our national anthem. you are lying to say you have seen it with your own eyes because it just isn't true. You are just one of the many that can't stand obama is president and must make up a reason for there to be something wrong with him to rationalize the views you hold in your heart. You and the others on your side make wild claims with nothing to back them up. I like evidence. So please next time you make a post melody or ed please add something of substance to it.
Gogetum | 9/18/2009 10:14:00 AMmark as inappropriate Matt, for the last time , BO already has a trial date set in Jan 2010.
You have been sucked in again by the LEFT STREAM. Too bad, really, that's too bad. I feel sorry for you, fellow. You are a victim, so go ahead and cry until it is all out of your system.
Matt | 9/18/2009 10:23:00 AMmark as inappropriate Gogetum I asked for evidence. I can say that you are involved in a homosexual relationship with Rush Limbaugh but that doesn't make it so.
Gogetum | 9/18/2009 10:45:00 AMmark as inappropriate Buy you books and send you to school and still gotta lead you around by the hand.
It's easy to find at ask.com or even google. Wake up Matt.
ed | 9/18/2009 10:48:00 AMmark as inappropriate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwog6E08CFU
This is the link you requested that shows Obama ignoring the national anthem. Don't know if I posted it right or not, but it is on youtube. I did look at the link you posted and admit now that the whole argument is stupid. It still isn't a birth certificate, but should be good enough to stop the insanity.
As far as me being a liar, I posted you a link above. And, you don't know me.. I have nothing to gain by lying about anything. If I am wrong I will admit it. But I don't agree with you or Obama so I must be lying.
You are correct about one thing about me Matt, I don't like Obama. But it isn't for the reasons YOU think.
ed | 9/18/2009 10:53:00 AMmark as inappropriate http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fwog6E08CFU
This is the link you requested that shows Obama ignoring the national anthem. Don't know if I posted it right or not, but it is on youtube. I did look at the link you posted and admit now that the whole argument is stupid. It still isn't a birth certificate, but should be good enough to stop the insanity.
As far as me being a liar, I posted you a link above. And, you don't know me.. I have nothing to gain by lying about anything. If I am wrong I will admit it. But I don't agree with you or Obama so I must be lying.
You are correct about one thing about me Matt, I don't like Obama. But it isn't for the reasons YOU think.
Gogetum | 9/18/2009 10:56:00 AMmark as inappropriate Buy you books and send you to school and still gotta lead you around by the hand.
It's easy to find at ask.com or even google. Wake up Matt.
Gogetum | 9/18/2009 11:10:00 AMmark as inappropriate Buy you books and send you to school and still gotta lead you around by the hand.
It's easy to find at ask.com or even google. Wake up Matt.
Matt | 9/18/2009 11:25:00 AMmark as inappropriate So Obama ignored the national anthem by facing the flag standing at attention and singing along? You are right he did not have his hand over his heart. OMG! That was the proof that he hates our country? That is so laughable. A certificate of live birth is not a birth certificate? You may have nothing to gain by lying but it does keep your belief system in tact. I was wrong in calling you a liar. maybe you do believe that if in one instance your hand is not over your heart during the national anthem that it is proof you hate your country. Who am I to say anything about your beliefs. I think we as a country could have a good debate on the things that matter to us if we could get all of this hate and lies out of the way. It seems easier for alot of people on the right to paint obama as a terrorist or muslim or arab or illegal immigrant then to admit and accept that a black man is president.
Gogetum what the hell are you talking about? Not a darn thing.
observer2 | 9/18/2009 11:38:00 AMmark as inappropriate Speaking of switching issues, KJ. This is for Matt, what do you think of the military? Why did BO back off this? Might be a good blog site for you and KJ. I know, more copy and paste. It's sodahead.com ,check it out since you like to do this sorta thing.
Ask a Question
Question :: US Obama's New Quote to the Military! THis is a big GAFT! Read Below. YOUR THOUGHTS?
HERE IS OBAMA'S RESPONSE WHEN HE BACKED OFF FROM HIS DECISION TO LET THE MILITARY PAY FOR THEIR WAR INJURIES..........SEND THIS TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW TO SHOW THEM JUST WHAT HE THINKS OF OUR MILITARY...
HERE IS OBAMA'S RESPONSE WHEN HE BACKED OFF FROM HIS DECISION TO LET THE MILITARY PAY FOR THEIR WAR INJURIES..........SEND THIS TO EVERYONE YOU KNOW TO SHOW THEM JUST WHAT HE THINKS OF OUR MILITARY WHO FIGHT FOR OUR COUNTRY AND GET HURT AND KILLED PROTECTING OUR FREEDOM!!!
Bad press, including major mockery of the plan led to President Obama abandoning his proposal to require veterans carry private health insurance to cover the estimated $540 million annual cost to the federal government of treatment for injuries to military personnel received during their tours on active duty.
The President admitted that he was puzzled by the magnitude of the opposition to his proposal.
His astute answer was, and I quote "Look, it's an all volunteer force," Obama wined..
He continued with -
"Nobody made these guys go to war. They had to have known and accepted the risks. Now they whine about bearing the costs of their choice? It doesn't compute..."
"I thought these were people who were proud to sacrifice for their country," Obama continued. "I wasn't asking for blood, just money. With the country facing the worst financial crisis in its history, I'd have thought that the patriotic thing to do would be to try to help reduce the nation's deficit. I guess I underestimated the selfishness of some of my fellow Americans."
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Question Stats Posted 07/29/09
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359 comments +29 / -2 raves
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Reply +15 raves by perks-a real PATRIOT posted Jul. 29
Wow, everyday we find out more and more that this pig is not American in any way shape or form. He is a communist all the way. What nerve to say such things. WOW!!!!
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Reply [-] by san posted Jul. 30
When did he say this? Where is your source?
Reply +2 raves [-] Formula... replied to san posted Jul. 31
Torchmanners post above should clear up your concerns about its legitimacy
Reply +7 raves [-] by Rhiannon posted Jul. 30
Good Lord. I can't believe I thought this psychopath would be a good President. I'm so ashamed. *hides face*
Also, I feel the need to start a good old fashioned mob of outraged people with torches and pitchforks. Who's with me? *picks up torch*
Reply +6 raves [-] DaveInNH replied to Rhiannon posted Jul. 30
Well, kid, live and learn, right?
If it looks like a ____ and smells like a ____, it's a _____.
I'm impressed that you came around. Good for you.
Reply +5 raves [-] Rhiannon replied to DaveInNH posted Jul. 30
I got sucked in my all the nice speeches. It was the first time in my life that I didn't manage to avoid all political propaganda, and I just didn't realize how badly that stuff can rot your brain....*sighs* Anyway, it was pretty hard not to come around, with all the, a-hem, /stuff/ he's doing now that he's in office.
Ah, well. Like you said, live and learn.
And the turd analogy amused me. :)
Reply +4 raves [-] cj2008 replied to Rhiannon posted Jul. 30
You can listen to what he says, but you have to dissect and evaluate it; not just accept it all at face value.
When he was making his campaign speeches saying he was going to cut taxes on the top 5% of earners and give that money back in tax savings to the other 95%, well, maybe that made math sense -- not healthy for the country sense, but math sense -- but then he added that he was going to make this grand and wonderful fantasy health system and no one's taxes would go up. That didn't make ANY math sense and certainly not "good for the country" sense.
He doesn't seem to realize that there are those who are satisfied with their health insurance 70 percent by polls, but let's just say 60 percent for the naysayers. Then you have a bunch of people making over $75,000/year who simply choose not to buy health insurance. They may think they're not going to get sick or just betting they don't. THey may use natural health methods that don't get paid by insurance in it's current form anyway, or they just don't think about it or don't think it's a good use of their money.
Then there are the people who need insurance, but aren't low income enough or are working just a little too hard to qualify for gov't assistance.
Then there are he illegals.
So, basically, if his plan went thr... You can listen to what he says, but you have to dissect and evaluate it; not just accept it all at face value.
When he was making his campaign speeches saying he was going to cut taxes on the top 5% of earners and give that money back in tax savings to the other 95%, well, maybe that made math sense -- not healthy for the country sense, but math sense -- but then he added that he was going to make this grand and wonderful fantasy health system and no one's taxes would go up. That didn't make ANY math sense and certainly not "good for the country" sense.
He doesn't seem to realize that there are those who are satisfied with their health insurance 70 percent by polls, but let's just say 60 percent for the naysayers. Then you have a bunch of people making over $75,000/year who simply choose not to buy health insurance. They may think they're not going to get sick or just betting they don't. THey may use natural health methods that don't get paid by insurance in it's current form anyway, or they just don't think about it or don't think it's a good use of their money.
Then there are the people who need insurance, but aren't low income enough or are working just a little too hard to qualify for gov't assistance.
Then there are he illegals.
So, basically, if his plan went through, all of the people who buy insurance now, plus those who don't choose to get it, but probably could afford it, will pay for all of their own insurance, PLUS all of the insurance of the other groups. How fair is that? How practical or logical is that? How much math sense does that make? How much sense for the health of our country does that make.
Then Obama, during his campaign, kept verbalizing socialistic ideals, but when asked if he was socialist, he'd say he wasn't. Do you just believe him or do you listen to what he says and decide for yourself? If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck and looks ilke a duck, it's a duck. Then Barney Franks gets on TV after the election and when asked about Obama's Socialist ideas and asked about why he was pushing those ideas when he said he wasn't a socialist and Franks says, "Everybody knew he was a Socialist. [Obama didn't say it in those words, but if you listened to his ideas...they knew he was a Socialist and they elected him anyway."
Obama is an eloquent speaker when he has practiced his speech. That is the only time he is eloquent. (more)
Not being fecicious (spelling?) here. But, the way he tries to please everyone except those he represents, is not a healthy attitude to have. Really, he needs to see a doctor who can scan and see what amino acids, etc. he is lacking in for his brain. Not joking. A naturopath can do that and take care of his problem in short order. Then he's have to stop believeing what Rev. Wright drilled into him all of those years.
Reply +1 raves [-] Rhiannon replied to cj2008 posted Jul. 30
I think a that seeing a psychiatrist could do him a world of good. He certainly needs to see some sort of doctor. *nods*
I respect you for 'manning-up' (just a term, I see you're a woman). Too many Obama supporters refuse to admit they made a mistake in judgment -- but we're human, so that's what we do. You have found that 'change' comes from within.
Plus, I'm glad sooo glad to see you have more love for your country than false pride. YOU GO GIRL!!! I wish I could rave you again.
Reply +5 raves [-] by beachbum posted Jul. 30
Is our POTUS really THIS out of touch??? Apparently so. Gee, if we had no armed forces to protect us/defend this country, then there'd be no expenses to have to pay out. The 'patriotic' thing to do would be have congress give up their raise in January, pay their own expenses, drop their lifetime perks, etc. Now, that would be 'patriotic'!
Reply +9 raves [-] by bacon bits posted Jul. 30
He makes me sick...he's alive because of the brave men and woman that make up the Military now and 200+ years ago! I have always said he was an arrogant, ungrateful, lying and phony person.
Reply +7 raves [-] by LVslotdoc posted Jul. 30
What's next, he's going to stop paying this "all volunteer force," too?
Reply +2 raves [-] DaveInNH replied to LVslotdoc posted Jul. 30 (edited)
Well, maybe he'd stop paying the military, but I'll bet this group of volunteers will get as much 'gubment' money as he can send their way.
Reply +8 raves [-] by madjack posted Jul. 30
I know he wanted to have us pay for our treatments,in part or full.Hadn't seen the quotes before,but it wouldn't surprise me.The attitude towards those serving and our veterans in general though,speaks for itself.
Reply +5 raves [-] cj2008 replied to madjack posted Jul. 30
The President and the legislators should have no greater benefits than those for the military.
Reply +8 raves [-] by Pooter po posted Jul. 30
I hope we never stop honoring those brave men and women of our military who are fighting for our freedoms. Self-serving politicians disgust me. I never thought I would live to see the day when the president of the United States would dishonor our past and present military by making such remarks. A mans' words reveal his true character or lack of such.
Reply +5 raves [-] beachbum replied to Pooter po posted Jul. 30
I for one, will not stop honoring our brave sons and daughters who are willing to put their lives on hold to fight for my freedom.
Not only his words dishonor (or honor) a person, but their actions, even more so.
Reply +3 raves [-] by Rachi posted Jul. 30
i am speechless... i would have sworn all up and down that fool if he had said that to me!!!! How dare he!!!!
Reply +4 raves [-] by Floe posted Jul. 30
"Nobody made you run for President. You must have known and accepted the risks. Now why do you whine about bearing the responsibility of your choice? It doesn't compute..."
lol
Reply +4 raves [-] by Angie posted Jul. 30
That no good lying, unpatriotic, illegal pos.
What sacrifice has he ever made for this country?
He's not good enough to shine the boots of our military.
Reply +5 raves [-] by Alexis-IN GOD WE TRUST posted Jul. 30
Obama is a ____, plain and simple. He will give resources to illegal immigrants and everyone else who is destroying this country but will not give the defenders of this country the right that they have earned. He is a disgrace. And the people who put him in office are just as disgraceful. And I have never before talked about a POTUS like I am talking about him. He disgusts me to the point that I am beyond caring about respect.....he isn't giving the American people any respect, so I don't think he deserves it either!!!
Reply +2 raves [-] cj2008 replied to Alexis-... posted Jul. 30
I'm right there with you. I've never been so disgusted by a POTUS. I can't even watch him on TV or listen to him at all. Can't stand to see his face. Why listen to him? He lies out of both sides of his face.
Reply +1 raves [-] Alexis-... replied to cj2008 posted Jul. 30
I have gotten to the point that I can't watch him too often. At one point, I was getting physically sick from it! One night I broke out into hives listening to his loony liberal ideas for healthcare.
Reply +4 raves [-] Lawson replied to Alexis-... posted Aug. 24 (edited)
Right on Alexis; couldn't have said it better myself. I served 20 years in the Air Force and I thought Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton were slugs but this guy is a new low. He's what slugs leave in their wake. I hope America wakes up in 2010 and gives him a majority conservative congress, all former military.
Reply +5 raves [-] by Magic Twanger posted Jul. 30
" It doesn't compute..." Of course It doesn't compute, you are a Marxist-Socialist asshole that cannot possible understand why people volunteer for the Military, he only understands SELF-SERVING act's and doing something because it Patriotic is too much for his pea brain to comprehend.
Reply [-] by Ken-Again posted Jul. 30
I'd be happy to comment more on this if there was an actual source that could be cited - otherwise it could just be wishful thinking for those who hate Obama.
Please post the actual source.
Reply +2 raves [-] Max replied to Ken-Again posted Jul. 30
I think it came from JOHN SEMMENS: Semi-News -- A Satirical Look at Recent News
http://www.azconservative.org...
It can't be actually proven true or false due to the fact it was not one interview containing the quotes, some are indeed fact - some are satire. Because Barry is such an ass it's lends itself to be scary close to reality. Yeah, I hate Barrys goals for America
Reply [-] Ken-Again replied to Max posted Jul. 30
Hating his goals are one thing, and I wouldn't try to stop anyone from speaking out against something they don't believe in,,, posting something as 'fact' when, there are no links to back it up, is something else.
I would have NO problem with Blog's like this if it was stated that this was an OPINION, or, in fact, Fiction. But it doesn't do that.
You can tell by the responses of all those here that these people believe this stuff... that's the scary part.
Reply +3 raves [-] Max replied to Ken-Again posted Jul. 30
I don't agree, whats scary is that some of it is true and the line can't be easily determined. He did indeed want veterans to pay !
Reply +1 raves [-] Ken-Again replied to Max posted Jul. 30
I would like to see the exact links from WHERE he said it.
Reply +1 raves [-] madjack replied to Ken-Again posted Jul. 30
Should be able to find something at DAV.org I remember it was proposed.
Reply +1 raves [-] Ken-Again replied to madjack posted Jul. 30
Great - show it to me!
Reply +2 raves [-] madjack replied to Ken-Again posted Jul. 30
Don't recall the issue Ken,they should have it on the site though.I think what was being tried was similar to the policy for retired military officers who are injured on active duty,are subsequently re-assigned,file claim on retirement.I think it is then a portion of the retirement is used as the disabilty,which is non taxable,the remainder from the VA.
Reply +1 raves [-] Magic T... replied to Ken-Again posted Jul. 31 (edited)
Why don't you take the time to look it up, does your mother chew your food for you too?
The article has been in the LA Times, NY Times, Newsweek, Time, etc., etc. I know I saw it on VA Television, at the VA Hospital, I say something about it in the DAV magazine, all of these can be found on line.
Reply [-] Ken-Again replied to Magic T... posted Jul. 31
I wasn't questioning if he proposed for their insurance to pay for it... I was questioning the supposed quotes' by him. THOSE are made up.
"Nobody made these guys go to war. They had to have known and accepted the risks. Now they whine about bearing the costs of their choice? It doesn't compute..."
Show me where that came from.
Reply [-] Magic T... replied to Ken-Again posted Jul. 31
Ken, you sound like one of Obuma Liberal Marxist-Socialist drones who would have no idea about service to America. While you damn these young men and women who are serving, my son included. Yes, the sign on to serve, something that is so foreign to the self absorbed liberal drones. You hold these men and women in contempt for serving America.
Something you don't know is that we who have served America in the Armed Forces have a Lifetime Commitment from our government to care for those who are wounded or damaged in some way. It is the government and people like you that are our internal enemies, and Obuma is at the top of our list.
I know a Marxist-Socialist cannot understand the virtue of service to other than themselves, but it exists. We fought so you and those like you have the freedom to try and stab those who served with selfless cause in the back. Well done faux American.
Reply [-] Ken-Again replied to Magic T... posted Jul. 31
I'm ouuta here... I don't converse with those who name call. If you want to have a good discussion do it without the B.S.
Reply +1 raves [-] Magic T... replied to Ken-Again posted Jul. 31
Fine, run and hide, that is what liberal cowards do.
Reply +1 raves [-] Janster replied to madjack posted Jul. 31
He won't believe you madjack . . .he opposes everything anti-Obama on Sodahead. You're wasting your time.
Reply +1 raves [-] madjack replied to Janster posted Jul. 31
Well,he is for Obama,that's for sure.I don't know if the quotes are from BO or not.I do know that he and Derban had a veterans assistance plan for our state.Turned out to be a a note that said,consult with your VA rep. soon etc.thank you for your service.Usual BS.
JC | 9/18/2009 11:40:00 AMmark as inappropriate Kinda sad to see the once-proud GOP devolve into a regional fringe party of blind rage and ignorance.
Kinda.
JC | 9/18/2009 11:43:00 AMmark as inappropriate observer2, there's a piece of internet shorthand you should familiarize yourself with:
"TL; DR"
Google it.
ed | 9/18/2009 11:47:00 AMmark as inappropriate Matt, he was not standing at attention and I never said anything that even resembled "he hates our country". And per the website you listed above, it was not a standard birth certificate but some sort of short form (I have already conceided this was a silly argument). The derogatory comments Obama has made about the U.S. were in the news and were said to be taken out of context as this seems to be the explination for foot-in-the-mouth syndrome everywhere. As for his race, again you seem to be the only one making that an issue. I do feel real bad though, b/c according to your insinuations, I don't agree b/c he's black. Well, I didn't agree with 70% of what Bush did so does that make me racist against whites too?
Matt | 9/18/2009 11:47:00 AMmark as inappropriate JC right on the head who wants to read all that? I think these people may just be completely crazy.
matt | 9/18/2009 11:49:00 AMmark as inappropriate Ed please post for me his comments Obama said about the U.S. He was standing at attention hands crossed in front of him.
JC | 9/18/2009 11:58:00 AMmark as inappropriate I can't believe traitors like Ed and Observer2 are bashing their Commander-in-Chief during wartime. Shameful. Whatever happened to "United We Stand"? Sad.
ed | 9/18/2009 12:22:00 PMmark as inappropriate Matt, you have a computer so you should be able to find it if you are interested. And, if you had ever been in the military, you would know what the position of attention is.
JC, I never bashed anyone and will not b/c I am in the military. I have nothing to be ashamed of. Maybe you should go back and read my posts and you will not see anything derogatory towards anyone.
Matt | 9/18/2009 12:36:00 PMmark as inappropriate Ed since you are in the military do you think it is proper for you to say anything negative about your commander in chief then? You still bring up doubts about a birth certificate while at the same time saying it is a stupid argument. It is a certificate of live birth. I am sure you would much rather have a president that starts an illegal war and is responsible for over 4,000 deaths. I am sure you are brain washed with the idea that we are still after the "evil doers" in Iraq. I am sure you love your country just as I do. We as a country have done some terrible things in the world in the past 8 years and thats a fact. We had warantless wiretaps locked up U.S. citizens illegaly just because they were of the muslim faith and generally pissed on the constitution. I wish i understood what the draw was to the republican party for military types and what makes you so suspicious of the left.
mike | 9/18/2009 1:00:00 PMmark as inappropriate love all the comments about how the majority of americans don't want healthcare reform, the majority voted for obama, sorry you traitorous republicans can't get over that. go ahead and start your revolution, i say you're a bunch of cowards too scared to put your money where your mouth is. (on rush limbaoughs butt!)
ed | 9/18/2009 1:16:00 PMmark as inappropriate I was gonna post the para. about the birth certificate (from the website in your previous post), but I don't care. I agreed with you so I am done with that.
I have not said anything disrespectful of Obama, as some have nor will I. I can disagree tastefully with anyone. I stated earlier that I didn't agree with most of what Bush did and you didn't accuse me of being neg about the commander-in-cheif then. I will tactfully give my thoughts and then you can have the last word. None of our discussions make me mad. It's All just opinion, yours, mine and all the others. The only thing that will ever matter is the outcome. If I ever meet Obama, I will, without fail or complaint, show him the courtesy and respect for holding the position of President of the United States. Just as I did when I met Bill Clinton (I was stationed at Little Rock AFB and he flew in frequently), I didn't agree with his politics either. The only thing that makes me mad is 80% of the people who do support Obama, that you see on t.v. or hear on the radio, will go straight to race if someone disagrees. I don't think that is fair. I know there are people who base their discontent on race, but not everyone. I don't judge all people in one ethnic group because I see one of them in the news for breaking the law. So don't group me in with people who didn't vote for Obama b/c he is black. I will vote according to who I agree with on the majority of the topics. Thanks for keeping it civil (mostly), and have a good day.
Matt | 9/18/2009 1:36:00 PMmark as inappropriate Ed that was a very gracious post. I do not like to play the race card on every issue when it comes to Obama but sometimes I am forced to. When you have people at tea parties not in Columbus but across this nation that depict our black president as a witch doctor or proudly fly the rebel flag that is overtly racist in my opinion. I am biracial just as is our president. I hate it when people label us as turning our backs on our white side when the president and I have been labeled by whites as black and nothing else our whole lives. The tone at alot of these rallies does take me back to the 60's and 70's when civil rights activist were labeled as "communist". The anger and the craziness is eerily similar.
JC | 9/18/2009 3:26:00 PMmark as inappropriate Ed, your idea of supporting the Commander-in-Chief during wartime is to imply that he is unpatriotic (that national anthem nonsense), a Muslim ("I've never posted my opinion nor will I") and not born in the U.S. ("it's a stupid argument, but here's a quick regurgitation of all the birther hogwash anyway")?
I'm sure he appreciates your support!
KJ | 9/18/2009 6:02:00 PMmark as inappropriate @Observer2: With the entire internet at your fingertips, that's the best you can do?
The quote wasn't from Obama. But anytime you'd like to actually think for yourself and write an actual response or share an original piece of work instead of copy-and-pasting outright lies that take all of 15 seconds to bust through google (see the above link), feel free. Hope you have a great weekend!
Melody | 9/18/2009 8:26:00 PMmark as inappropriate Sure is a comedy show. Red neck white men fussing about a black politician. You need to learn to stick together like we do. No racist in our neighborhood. Are you all from MS? Sure sounds like it. I'm glad I live in Ala., we all get along over here and most everybody is happy with their healthcare. You all should be proud of the leaders who spoke at the courthouse meeting and all those who attended. Sounds like they got it together. That Libscomb man could make a good candidate for congress. You who are from around there should support them instead of making fools of yourselves for the whole world to see. Why not join the majority and start getting your news from fox , as was suggested earlier, more people watch fox than all the left stream chanels combined. So why not join the majority. Have to go back to work, breaks over. This is my last post on this one .
Thom Geiger | 9/19/2009 12:34:00 AMmark as inappropriate "Matt: I like evidence. So please next time you make a post melody or ed please add something of substance to it."
I've been trying to stay out of these Dispatch spats, but I also like evidence and facts. False and accusatory bloviating (here a racist, there a racist, everywhere a racist) is non-productive, even when it comes to creating momentum in an argument. Making irrational and unsubstantiated claims about the intentions of the opposition in a debate does no participant a bit of good. It's an obvious sign or weakness, in my opinion.
The accusation that the bulk of the opposition to President Obama's post-election governing is based on his race is ignorant. It's crying 'wolf!' and, like the boy in the fable, when real racism is about the land and should be identified and singled out as such, no one will care because the accusation has been watered down by people who use it as a cheap tool in every debate on political, social and religious philosophy...and Jimmy Carter is dead wrong.
I was a die hard Democrat once, since the week I shook Carter's hand on the steps of the Georgia capital when he was running for governor. I voted for him then and I voted for him when he ran for President, but I know where Carter comes from, his family, which was not unlike some local families here in MS. I am disappointed to see Jimmy Carter accuse the people in the town hall meetings, the people who oppose POTUS Obama's plans on health care, financial bailouts of the banking sector, and the wars we are already involved in, of being racists. I know some of those people personally, and in fact, I, as a fiscally conservative moderate, oppose many of his plans and his overall strategy for the country.
Many of the people I know, who disagree along with me, are opposed to those plans the President has that will increase the deficit, lead to more and higher taxes, even limit our rights and freedoms more than was done under the Republicans, with their Patriot Act, secret courts and illegal surveillance programs.
Interesting that while Conservatives tried to legislate religion and morality, Liberals are trying to legislate charity (redistribution of personal financial resources through public taxation).
I was, at one time (while I was a registered Democrat), also an amateur political cartoonist. I definitely did more cartoons critical of Republican administrations than I did of the DP when Democrats occupied the White House. In fact, the most uproar from one of my works came when it was said I insulted then White House Chief of Staff John H. Sununu.
I marched against the war in Vietnam in the 60s, but I kept my draft card and even ended up enlisting. I felt if I didn't join, someone would be drafted to take my place. I abhor war, but as a former grunt, I feel once we are committed to one, the Marines, soldiers, sailors and airmen deserve every drop of support this country can muster as long as we keep them there.
So I'm neither hawk nor dove, liberal nor conservative. On my mother's side, my family was abolitionists and worked for social change during the civil rights movement of the 60s. My father's family was immigrants who came to the US after the Civil War and never owned slaves. In our immediate family are (or have been) African-Americans and Jews, along with natives of Puerto Rico and Mexico. So I am familiar with discussions on race and racism, which brings me back to the people at the town hall meetings, the people who oppose the hurry-up health care plans and the bailouts of banks and insurance companies that turn around and give outrageous bonuses to the same people who built those houses of cards in the first place.
Those people who marched in Washington, who are upset about their savings being drained by taxes and losing their jobs to unemployment, the ones I know are not racist. They would, *I* would, oppose what I disagree with now if the President's last name was Murphy, he had a light complexion and red hair, my family owned one of the banks that was failing and the 15 million people here illegally were fair haired Swedes.
Frankly, that type of political mindset, the increasingly haphazard and irresponsible use of the racist accusation makes me sick. That is one of the main reasons I am no longer a registered Democrat. When the party can lend its name and reputation to that kind of cheap shot style of debate, then there is a serious lack of moral fiber there, and it's been spreading and getting worse for some years now. I won't be apart of that kind of low behavior.
Now, as for the evidence, President Obama has never, to my knowledge, produced a copy of his actual birth certificate.
To see a photo of a woman holding two birth certificates, issued by the state of Hawaii for her two daughters who were born the day after and at the same hospital where Barack Obama was born, you can go to
http://www.heavydata.net/Politics/documents/nordyke1.jpg
That is what a birth certificate issued by the state of Hawaii that year looks like. The document you have referred to is a certificate of live birth, not a birth certificate. In the lower left hand corner of the certificate of live birth posted to the snopes site, it says "OSHM 1.1 (Rev.11/01) Laser". I believe, if you check, you'll find the 11/01 refers to the month of November, 2001 and that the word Laser refers to the fact that the document was printed on a Laser printer.
Personally, I don't care if the President doesn't show a copy of his birth certificate, ever. Aside from the trouble it would be to change the Constitution, I really don't see the validity of keeping the native born requirement for holding public office anyway. I've know honest foreign born people, naturalized citizens of impeccable character, many who served with honor and distinction with me in uniform, who could do a better job as President than more than one or two of our native born sons have done...but as for Barack Obama, although I was very disappointed that he came out in favor of a particular candidate in the last election, I would have voted for Colin Powell (had he ran) over Barack Obama six ways from Sunday.
I hope Democrats and Liberals give the accusations of racism a rest. It cheapens the legitimacy of the term and only hurts the accusers in the eyes of moderates, like myself, who know when it's being misused.
matt | 9/19/2009 12:06:00 PMmark as inappropriate Geiger
When did i say the majority was because of racism? I gave my proof of the racism that exist in previous post along with a link to our presidents birth certificate. Why do you go back and read what i actually said before making up lies.
Thom Geiger | 9/19/2009 1:30:00 PMmark as inappropriate "matt: Geiger
When did i say the majority was because of racism?"
You said you like evidence and I said I like evidence and facts.
Are there two 'matts' posting to this blog, on this specific topic? Strange coincidence, seeing that the arguments of one span through the messages the other.
Regardless, the blog software logs IP numbers and that could be settled easily.
Which of the matt personalities posted the following?
"Most of these people are mad that we have a black president and the fact that he is also a democrat."
Online dictionaries describe the meaning of "a majority" of something as "most" of something.
Gogetum | 9/19/2009 2:33:00 PMmark as inappropriate Excellent substance Mr. Geiger. Matt seems to be all confused when faced with the facts. Something he doesn't get a lot of from the left stream media. I especially like your point about BO not providing any evidence about his birthplace. It's very possible he used his African birth for his free college degree . Than's more evidence I'd like to check out. Would that make for a lot of red faces?
Matt, you don't need a degree to know there's something stinky going on, right?
Remember , Matt, to check on the next meeting at the courthouse and be there. Bring KJ and the JC person with you , might not be hard to do if you're all 3 in one.
Let's all vote "NO" on Obamacare!!
Thom Geiger | 9/19/2009 2:34:00 PMmark as inappropriate Right now, at this moment, both Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Admiral Mike Mullen and Commander, U.S. Forces Afghanistan (USFOR-A), General Stanley A. McChrystal have made numerous requests to Secretary of Defense Robert Gates for an additional 30,000-40,000 troops in Afghanistan, due to the deteriorating security situation there.
SecDef Gates has informed both McChrystal and Mullen they won't be allowed to make a formal request for more troops to the White House and President Obama until after the controversy over the President's health care plan is settled. Gates has stated President Obama fears making such an important decision, and most likely an even more controversial one than his health care plan, will distract Americans from what he feels is the more important issue of health care reform.
That, matt, is what Vietnam veterans and other war veterans hate, immensely. Any politician who lets politics get in the way of the security and needs of American troops already in country.
That is why I oppose this President, I think he makes stupid decisions about military action because he has no concept of what it means to be a grunt, to be in the field, to actually serve in uniform. He is, at most, a pampered young man who doesn't listen very well to others who have the experience and knowledge he lacks on such important subjects as fighting a war.
Liberals want to talk about race since President Obama was elected, but I know full well the anti-military sentiment that has always been a mainstay of the political left in this country, and especially in Lowndes County and Columbus. There are many here who wish the base had closed at the last BRAC cycle. That is documented.
Again, the shotgun accusation of racism as the main reason people disagree with President Obama offends me and it disappoints me that the national Democratic Party is stooping that low in its efforts to support the President and his agenda.
It took years for me to get past the intense emotional anger I had about people who yelled at us when we wore our uniforms home in the 70s. Those people who didn't just point fingers at us, like people are doing with these politicians in town hall meetings across the country, but people who called us baby killers, war criminals, harassed us on the job when we were lucky enough to find one after we were discharged. People who insulted our families, vandalized our property and possessions, threatened us and assaulted us. The good people who protested the war, wore peace emblems on their shirts, claimed they advocated love. It took me a long time.
I can easily name twenty companies in Lowndes County where a veteran of the Vietnam war couldn't get a job, and the state employment office put Vietnam veterans at the bottom of the list for help. The city of Columbus had, for years, a policy in place that discriminated against military veterans.
So, given the anti military sentiment that has been ongoing here in this county for the last 40+ years, from those who still say they advocate equality, love and peace, race has little to nothing to do with my opinion about the election and current President's policies or fitness for office. Likewise for almost all the military veterans I talk to.
I will tell you this, and it is without a doubt wholly due to those experiences I have had with people who resent veterans and active duty military members, I feel President Obama and the majority of Democrats and Liberals would not hesitate to put our service members' lives in danger, if they felt it would serve a higher purpose. That is another of the few, but overwhelmingly important to me, reasons I am no longer a Democrat. To me, the DP of today is mostly young and lacks compassion, raised on blood and violence in video games and movies. The life of a single soldier has little or no meaning to them. How else can the President expect military leaders to put off decisions that WILL, not MIGHT mean the difference between life and death for some of our troops, until he settles a political debate over policy?
observer2 | 9/19/2009 6:55:00 PMmark as inappropriate This is for Matt and company-They likes this kind of sutff. Black guy putting down fox newsman.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hzh-eq2tuLA
matt | 9/20/2009 8:37:00 AMmark as inappropriate Thom you are kidding me right? You make hearsay accusations and just automatically look at them as fact just like most people on the right. Liberals would put the military in harm? george bush is responsible for over 4,000 deaths in Iraq while they were not even a threat to us and we liberals are the ones that want to put the military in harms ways. this war in afghanistan should be over by now but the previous president was asked for more troops but they weren't available because our idiot president was fighting his daddies war.
You keep bringing up racism and being dishonest about what it stems from. when white people hold up signs of our president as a witch doctor as an arab or as a muslim that is racist to me. i'm sorry if that is so suprising to you as a white man. It is not only racist against our president but shows a deep seeded hate of arabs and muslims. Please tell me why you think all these angry folks yell " we're losing our country"? The right targets these weak minded people because they know they can tell them anything and they will believe it's so. That is one of the saddest things about living in the south that you have so many of these weak-minded people speaking for us. Thats why mississippi is looked upon as backwoods and redneck because of these types of people. They are always so sure about themselves and rush and glen and bill have set them up to look like idiots in the eyes of most people with even a highschool education. it is perfectly fine to be a conservative and argue for conservative principles but that is not whats going on right now. the republican party has been dumbed down to such an extent it is embarrassing. I can see it in the eyes of alot of politicians on the right. They know that these statements being made are completely stupid but have to play to the slow-minded base. Good luck with all this hate and anger in the next election.
Thom Geiger | 9/20/2009 10:25:00 AMmark as inappropriate One point I think the neo-liberal movement of young people forget, or just don't know, is that it's one thing to say a politician, celebrity or public figure is a racist, but pointing a finger at a private citizen in a public meeting and accusing them of being a racist, that is actionable. That means a person can be sued for it, then have to prove their accusations in a court of law to the satisfaction of a jury and/or judge. If they can't prove it, the logical outcome would be a civil judgment that will last until it is paid off or the defendant declares bankruptcy.
Hopefully, if you make that youthful mistake, you won't be old enough that you will have to answer for your own actions.
I don't know if you are still living at home with your parents, or if you are on your own and working a job, but the next time you are in a group of ordinary citizens, maybe some co-workers, think about what I've posted if the urge strikes you to accuse the person standing next to you of being a racist. That is statement of fact and not opinion. They can force you to prove it to 12 other people.
Why is Mississippi "looked upon as backwoods and redneck"? The same reason Vietnam veterans have been "looked upon" as drug addicts, psychopathic killers and schizophrenics for 40 years...Hollywood, who are what? That's right, the media capital of the US, spewing blood, violence, bigotry and racism into the stores, networks and movie houses of America. Through movies, lyrics, games, that's where young people in this country get their ideas about the Vietnam war, Vietnam veterans, all their knowledge of world history, or their knowledge of current events. Without Hollywood, except for a very few, America's youth wouldn't know what state the statue of liberty is in.
"You make hearsay accusations and just automatically look at them as fact just like most people on the right."
What hearsay? What I posted about Admiral Mike Mullen and General Stanley A. McChrystal's troop requests being put on hold by the President is fact, not hearsay. SecDef Gates has said it in several news conferences. I suggest you wake up and do some research for yourself.
The 'hearsay' argument, along with a charge of racism, is the last gasp of a liberal losing in a debate.
So was it in my message that is hearsay? I thought you posted that you like evidence? For someone who accuses others of not having any, you seem to make a lot of accusations without evidence of your own.
I've already gotten some criticism from other adults for responding to a young person with limited real world knowledge of current events and history, but I was curious about the extent of that knowledge.
I'm disappointed.
matt | 9/20/2009 11:32:00 AMmark as inappropriate Thom you sound so bitter. You say I make accusations against individuals? What individual did i acuse of anything? lmao You say these things while at the same time making it seem like lowndes county and the business owners here have some sort of prejudice against vietnam veterans? I would be happy for you to come in front of me with a picture of Obama as a witch doctor while flying a rebel flag I will proudly call you a racist to your face. My whole point on this discussion board was not even about race. you and others seem to love to talk about it though. Its funny someone that would talk about suing me is the same type that thinks tort reform is a cure all for our countries problems. I may be young but I am positive I am far more informed then the average tea part goer. We live in a welfare state that takes far more from the federal government than we give. Do the tea party goers complain about our republican governor? Do they complain about our local government and how high our car tags and property taxes are? We can agree to disagree but you have people on this board like gogetum that just prove my point. with statements like this
Gogetum: I especially like your point about BO not providing any evidence about his birthplace. It's very possible he used his African birth for his free college degree
The right is so classy and I'm not sure how anyone would take their statements the wrong way. I don't care what these people think or feel about me or our president. None of these crazies affect my life in any way. I would love to come to your next meeting and maybe my mind would change about the movement.
Neil | 9/20/2009 12:42:00 PMmark as inappropriate I am really quite disappointed at many of the comments posted here. Why?? Because of the amount of contempt people have for one another. You are Left, you are Right, you watch Fox, you watch MSNBC, you are so wrong...etc. It's a sorry state of affairs to see so many people think they have a monopoly on thoughts, feelings, political views, and religious views.
Instead of attacking each other, why can't we point out the real problems and offer solutions? How does the wealthiest nation on Earth fall so far? Why are we so in debt? Why are so many people out of work?
America is at a huge crossroads in history! Forget about political party affiliations folks...many of our problems would be solved if we as a country would put America first. America has the talent, skills, experience, and wisdom to do this.
Why is this not being done? Because of greed, corruption, crooked politicians, crooked corporations, and bought/paid for biased media telling us what to think and feel. All this is being done to keep citizens like you and me at each other's throats while our country continues to be raped and pillaged.
As hateful and ingracious some of the folks sound in some of these posts here...I am still positive that many would still give the shirt off their back if it could help another person. We need to take this same approach to building our great country back.
KJ | 9/20/2009 2:08:00 PMmark as inappropriate So...Hollywood is responsible for Mississippi having a reputation for being backwoods and redneck. Folks, please ignore the education system, teen pregnancy rate, and the AFA fundies behind the curtain. It's Hollywood's fault.
And, of course, liberals hate the military. This old trope is as tired as the one about Republicans being the party of fiscal conservatism and small government. Folks, please ignore the last years of reckless spending and policy that doubled our debt and threw our economy into a recession. The GOP is the party of fiscal conservatism and small government. Your eyes and your wallet are lying to you if they say otherwise.
It wasn't liberals who vetoed pay raises for our armed service members a couple of years ago even though many military families are forced to rely on welfare and food stamps. And as far as Afghanistan goes, in April of 2008 Bush's military commanders warned him that Afghanistan was getting worse. They requested more money, more troops, pressure on Pakistan, and an indefinite suspension of elections. Bush ignored all this advice except for asking Afghanistan to postpone elections until August. He left everything else for his successor to do something about. Does that sound like someone who cares about troops?
After taking office, Obama committed 21,000 more troops along with billions of dollars in aid to rebuild Afghanistan's security forces and help redevelopment. He's worked on a regional cooperative agreement to help anti-drug policies be more effective there. But of course, years of ineptitude and neglect can't be solved in a matter of months. There's no magic wand for Afghanistan. More time and resources are needed.
The fact of the matter is that Obama is taking flack from the right wing for planning to more than double the number of troops on the ground in Afghanistan to 240,000 and upping police to 160,000 by 2014. Unlike his predecessor, he's not ignoring the situation and waiting for it to go away. Which isn't to say that he doesn't have problems with his own party, some of whom do indeed think that we should walk away from Afghanistan and are unhappy that Obama has become a "war president."
I suppose that "racism" and "hearsay" could be "the last gasp of a liberal losing in a debate," but in the broader debate liberals aren't losing. In the broader debate, non-Republicans are the only ones participating. As Olympia Snowe has pointed out in the last week, the Republican party has left its conservative principles (limited government, individual opportunities, fiscal responsibility, and a strong national defense) far behind. Those of us who haven't (and those of us who reject the increasing religious fundamentalism of the shrinking base) have chosen another path. It wasn't liberals who elected Obama...it was moderates and independents who increasingly look at the Republican party and don't see a reasonable platform with which they can agree.
from Thom: "because he has no concept of what it means to be a grunt, to be in the field, to actually serve in uniform. He is, at most, a pampered young man who doesn't listen very well to others who have the experience and knowledge he lacks on such important subjects as fighting a war"
And we're talking about Obama, right? Not Bush? Because, reading that, it sure sounds like the last Republican president. Maybe McCain was qualified under the criteria that he knows "what it means to be a grunt, to be in the field, to actually serve in uniform." But he was wholly unqualified in other regards. Clueless about the economy, worst-decision-ever in picking Palin as VP (she certainly doesn't meet the 'serve in uniform' qualification), and completely inept at managing a campaign, much less an administration. He was against torture, though, so it's not like there was nothing to recommend him.
As far as taxes go, what do you want to cut in order to not raise taxes? Bruce Bartlett has a great explanation of our current budget situation (resource links are at the bottom of this comment). I strongly suggest reading it. Last year, if we had completely cut domestic discretionary spending (everything that isn't social security, medicare, and the military) we would have run a $25 billion surplus. We can't cut entitlements (everyone says they want to but they don't) and we can't rightly cut out enough discretionary domestic spending to balance the budget. $25 billion dollars won't go far in education, law enforcement, infrastructure, and bailing Mississippi (among others) out of its recurring budget mess.
Without the $200 billion in stimulus spending this year, we were looking at a deficit of over $1 trillion. Taxes have to go up or fiscal conservatives have to step up to the plate and make the case for reducing entitlements. But Republicans are no longer the party of small government and fiscal responsibility. They've demonstrated that they're willing to spend as much or more as Democrats in their efforts to remain in power. Out of power, out of ideas, out of everything except anger for ... something.
They keep tapping their toes, trying to explain what the anger is for. But when push comes to shove and they don't take action to match those words, they claim that folks just misunderstand their wide stance.
GWB has left the party in such a state of disarray that it will likely take more than one or two election cycles to recover. At worst, it might shrink so far that it becomes a regional party unable to appeal to a broad audience beyond the southeast. Maybe that's what they're angry about.
In any case, I believe we're reaching the upper limit of what an angry, unfocused, increasingly fundamentalist party can achieve in public debate with the help of a single national broadcaster who is willing to suspend partiality in order to cater to that niche.
[sourced from "The Afghanistan Impasse" | http://www.nybooks.com/articles/23113 ; Talking Points Memo | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPrqJKLYQBA&feature=player_embedded ; Forbes | http://www.forbes.com/2009/09/17/federal-budget-spending-opinions-columnists-bruce-bartlett.html ]
KJ | 9/20/2009 3:59:00 PMmark as inappropriate Oops...I meant for "suspend partiality" to read "suspend neutrality."
Jeff | 9/21/2009 7:42:00 PMmark as inappropriate KJ and Matt are racist because they disagree with Bush.
Stupid huh?
Get a life and a job.
Matt | 9/22/2009 9:35:00 AMmark as inappropriate Jeff
When did anyone besides you make the accusation that if you disagree with them you're a racist. obviously you have not read my posts. Get a life and a job? I love when those on the right say this. Do you think liberals don't work? I happen to be young, upper middle class, and have a great job and life. I am almost positive I contribute much more to this society than you.
Jeff | 9/23/2009 9:55:00 PMmark as inappropriate Matt,
Did you really just say you contribute more than me?
Whats next? How about my dad can beat up your dad.
You obviously don't contribute too much, bc your are on this website too much to have a real job. Unless, they are letting you use the computers for personal use at Radio Shack.
Matt | 9/24/2009 1:09:00 PMmark as inappropriate Jeff
I am a business owner. I am not sure what you have to add to this board but it doesn't seem like you have much to say. When you have time to come up with something englightened to say come back and talk with the grown ups. What is this with the get a life and a job you republicans love to say?
