Article Comment 

Raymond Gross: Medicare plans




I was a little surprised The Dispatch would publish such an obvious false political statement about Congressman Ryan''s proposal to save our Medicare. I''m referring to the Mike Luckovich cartoon, (Thursday, May 26, "Hangover II,") that appeared on the opinion page. 


It reminds me of the disgraceful false TV ad, that the liberal Dems spent mega bucks on, showing a man pushing an elderly woman in a wheel chair over a cliff. 


I heard Herman Cain, a man I''d like to see become our first black president, say today that he supports the Ryan plan 100% and if nothing is done to change the present Medicare system (which is what the Obama administration is happy doing) it will not be available to anyone in a few years. The Ryan plan would never affect those of us who are presently using Medicare and those who are 55 and above. 


Even Bill Clinton was shown on TV saying he wished the Dems would actually do something to help preserve Medicare. It really surprised a lot of people to see and hear Bill being down right "spot on" with real concern. Hopefully he really cares and will be a positive influence. I bet he will be awfully disappointed when the Dems fail to come up with a conservative plan of their on to help preserve Medicare. Everyone should know by now that their only plan, Obamacare, was forced on us and takes $500 billion away from Medicare.  


Hopefully all those who voted to put Obama in office and those who voted to reelect the Pelosi/Reed duo can see this and all the evil generated by giving "Obamacare waivers" to all their rich supporters. 




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Reader Comments

Article Comment columbus concerned commented at 5/31/2011 4:16:00 PM:


We already have the first black president. Herman Cain would be the second.


Article Comment kj commented at 5/31/2011 5:04:00 PM:

Because privatized care is approximately 40% more expensive than public care (based on current numbers) the savings proposed by Ryan amount to a severe reduction in the percentage that government will pay of much higher costs. The Ryan plan will render Medicaid valueless through one of the following mechanisms:

1) The proposed shrinkage in the value of the government coupon won't actually happen. In which case costs will skyrocket absent the ability of Medicare to put the brakes on health care inflation. If government is unable to shrink the value of the coupon, then tax expenditures will increase accordingly, making the continuing existence of the program even more precarious than it is currently.

2) The proposed shrinkage in the value of the government coupon will actually happen. In which case all of the savings will come from people going without care that they actually need.

Here in the United States we pay more per capita and receive less medical care per capita than every other G8 nation currently does. Republicans had 6 years in control--both houses of congress and the administration--in which to address government deficits. And address it they did: they created huge new deficits by lowering taxes and increasing spending on entitlements, defense, and in the discretionary budget with wild abandon. Dick Cheney himself crowed, "Deficits don't matter!"

Today, the Republican Party insists that the only way to fix the problem they created is not to raise more revenue (despite the fact that the effective rate in the U.S. is the lowest of any developed nation) but to raise the cost of needed services while paying for fewer of them for those people in most desperate need of assistance.

What Obamacare does do is increase savings by lowering costs. Not by taking over health care, but by addressing the problematic state of health insurance and the cost inflation that it creates without adding any real value to system. Yes, waivers are problematic in the short term and have the potential to be problematic in the long term. If republicans dared to address that issue they could disallow them going forward. I suspect, however, that politicians of neither party will be honest enough to do so. Else how could they offer them to their rich friends and supporters in the future?


Article Comment hope commented at 5/31/2011 6:42:00 PM:

The liberal Dems TV ads of a man pushing an elderly Lady over a cliff reminds me of Palins' death panel and Grassleys' pulling the plug on "Grandma." But then that's the way Faux would have presented it too.


Article Comment melody commented at 5/31/2011 8:52:00 PM:

I agree with Mr. Gross, Obama is not my first black president either. It is no secret that kj and hope think he is their first black president and they probably will vote for him again so they won't regret voting for him in 08. Oh wait, Obama told them this year is 2008 so they probably think it is too because they believe everything he says , right. Well , it's not 2008 anymore and Obama has a real record now that he can't honestly brag about so it's going to be a campaign of blame the repubs and put down everything they try to do. His record is sooo bad and obvious to everyone for hope and kj to remain on the defense of his backward leadership. If Obamacare increases savings and lowers cost, why are the majority of our states wanting it repealed? Naturally all the waivers are going to liberal supporters and it's not that hard to see through this mess of a liberal disaster. Look at the calendar guys and gals , it's not 2008 anymore . Just because Obama says it is doesn't make it so. How can you still blindly support this guy? Get ready for Hillary to jump in soon because Obama is a one termer.


Article Comment kj commented at 5/31/2011 10:40:00 PM:

It's not blind support of Obama, Melody. It's a recognition that only one party appears to be making any real compromises in a good-faith attempt to move possible solutions to actual problems closer to reality.

I certainly don't hesitate to acknowledge problematic aspects of the resulting legislation; likewise, I am not slow to point out when criticism is based not on policy or ideas but on misinformation, lies, and ad hominem attacks of other posters. Unlike Mr. Gross, with whom I also disagree, you have again sidestepped the discussion in order to attack fellow posters with speculation and innuendo. What's particularly sad about that is that you could choose to both materially participate in the discussion AND level personal attacks at other posters.


Article Comment garryking1 commented at 6/1/2011 2:25:00 AM:

Starting this year your child (or children) cannot be denied coverage simply because they have a pre-existing health condition. If you don't have insurance for you and your children search "Penny Health Insurance" online they are the best.


Article Comment gogetum commented at 6/1/2011 8:37:00 AM:

Attack? I don't see where melody was launching a personal attack on anyone but Obama. Don't feel bad about the false charge in kj's direct personal attack on you melody. You were only stateing your assumption drawn from postings made by kj and hope.
Compromise? That's something the libs believe in only when it will help their own evil agenda and the repubs have compromised too much already. When it comes to doing the right thing , compromise should not be on the table. I think the repubs should stop the debt ceiling now with help from some of the dems in the senate. It was a good feeling to see dems actually voting with the repubs in the house of reps today. Maybe Bill Clintons words have been helpful.
I can't wait for the repeal of obamacare which does more harm to our economy and medicare than hillarycare would ever have done. This repeal will happen after repubs take control of both houses next year. Hopefully the whitehouse too. Hillary might enter the race but I feel anyone the repubs run will stand a great chance of winning the whitehouse back in either case.


Article Comment hope commented at 6/1/2011 9:43:00 AM:

@melody & gogetum:Surely you two are beginning to feel very uneasy about your Republicans getting elected in 2012 after six (6) Republicans in Wisconsin being in a recall election this June and a Democrat being elected last week, the first since the '50's, to represent the 26th congressional district of NY,because of the Ryan medicare bill. As Senator Reid explains about Ryan's medicare bill, it makes the rich richer and the sick sicker. The Republicans are slowly but surely committing political suicide. Today they want to meet with President Obama about spending cuts and they are the very ones that got us into this mess. Obama should tell them that he has other plans, maybe like going to Kenya to show off his long form B'certificate!
SNL had it right when they said the Donald was running as a joke, not a Republican. And now the people are realizing that all the Republicans are jokes and that we need real people to lead us out of this mess that President Obama and the Democrats inherited.


Article Comment kj commented at 6/1/2011 11:30:00 AM:

The more people understand about the Ryan plan, the lower the poll numbers get. Exactly the opposite happens when people gain understanding an understanding of what republicans derisively call Obamacare.


Article Comment zenreaper commented at 6/1/2011 4:38:00 PM:

Here is the bottom line, absent any "effective tax rates" or ANYONE'S plan. The people who are WORKING are paying X amount of dollars in taxes and health insurance. The government wants those SAME people to pay MORE in taxes and health insurance, so people who AREN'T paying either can still get their FREE stuff. ANd it AIN'T gonna fly.

Yay, raise the taxes on the RICH, yeah, GET those folks, eh? You DO realize that they control prices and production, and will simply raise the cost of items the lower and middle class BUYS, right?

Grow up people, the "American Pie" is being divied up, and its about time the NON PRODUCING Americans realize they CAN'T have desert without WORKING for it.


Article Comment hope commented at 6/1/2011 7:15:00 PM:

@zenreaper;and it ain't gonna fly! What is going to fly are the Republicans out of office come 2012, because they are acting like the hardliners in the Middle East.


Article Comment observer2 commented at 6/2/2011 10:04:00 AM:

Thanks, Mr. Gross, for mentioning Herman Cain, you got your head on right. This guy Herman Cain is my pick for President too and I think he will beat Obama if nominated. I'd love to see him and Mike Huckabee run together. Both are advocates of the Fair Tax and Mr. Cain stated today that he would make that happen in his third and fourth year as President. Mr. Gross is right about the Ryan plan for saving Medicare and Mr. Cain is still in full support of his reform plan.


Article Comment zenreaper commented at 6/2/2011 11:40:00 AM:

Yeah hope, keep saying that, maybe some people will believe you. Bottom line, the DEMOCRATICALLY controlled Senate wants to raise the debt ceiling, the REPUBLICAN controlled House wants spending cuts. The House has OFFERED to raise raise the debt ceiling in exchange for spending cuts. The Senate REFUSES to offer any spending cuts, as they want the ceiling raised with NO concessions. The SENATE is the one offering NOTHING in exchange for what they want, thus THEY are the ones holding out.

But, of course, you Democrats think you should get what you want for FREE. Kinda like most of your constituents.


Article Comment frank commented at 6/2/2011 2:44:00 PM:

Herman Cain is like Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny. Black, conservative, Republican, businessmen don't really exist. Hopeless told me so.


Article Comment observer2 commented at 6/2/2011 8:30:00 PM:

This is for the in box of hope. Obama embraces the death panels---

Is anyone surprised walter hasn't endorced the best black man to ever run for President, Herman Cain? Come on walter, fess up. You're not really for a good black man becoming president, right?


Article Comment kj commented at 6/3/2011 2:39:00 AM:

Death panels...hmmmm. You mean like when insurance companies deny experimental treatments? Or when they say, "look, you've exceeded your lifetime caps for chemotherapy, you can't have anymore." Or when they say, "I know you have this pre-existing condition, and it's terminal. But it's pre-existing and therefore we can't offer you any coverage." So sorry, you need to just die.

Oddly enough, these death panels are death panels that republicans (in general) are more than happy with. The only death panels that they are unhappy about are those that mirror the current system but do not discriminate based on ability to pay.


Article Comment observer2 commented at 6/3/2011 7:32:00 AM:

You might as well give up on this Obamadude and his country killing obamacare. No body wants it and he's giving all these waivers only to his supporters, it's crooked as a snake. Try the copy and paste trick to read the whole article, get one of your grandchildren to show you how or invite hope over and maybe, just maybe the two of you can figure it out. You two sound so much alike.


Article Comment oneeyedking commented at 6/3/2011 1:16:00 PM:

I can't believe gogetum had the audacity to bring up the debt ceiling. It amazes me how people forget history. I have heard many arguments about how reckless the dems are in their efforts to increase the debt ceiling. Let's take a trip down memory lane.

S. 2578, passed by Senate June 11, 2002. Passed by the House June 27, 2002. Signed by President Bush June 28, 2002. Raised the debt ceiling by $450 Billion. 17 days from the time it passed the Senate to time the President signed it. source:

H.J.Res.51, introduced in the House April 11, 2003. Passed the Senate May 23, 2003. Signed by President Bush May 27, 2003. Raised the debt ceiling by $984 Billion. 46 days from introduction to the President's pen. source:

S. 2986, introduced in the Senate November 16, 2004. Passed the Senate November 17, 2004. Passed the House November 18, 2004. Signed by President Bush November 19, 2004. Raised the debt ceiling $800 Billion. 3 days from inception to the President's approval. source:

H.J.Res.47, passed the House April 28, 2005. Passed the Senate Mar 16, 2006 and signed by President Bush March 20, 2006. Raised the debt ceiling $781 Billion. source:

H.J.Res. 43, introduced May 17, 2007. Passed by Senate September 27, 2007. Signed by President Bush September 29, 2007. Raised the debt ceiling $850 Billion. source:

S.Cons.Res.70, introduced March 7, 2008. Passed Senate March 14, 2008. Passed the House May 14, 2008. Raised the debt ceiling $800 Billion. source:

Last but not least, a favorite among many:

H.R. 1424:Emergency Economic Stabilization Act of 2008. Passed the House March 5, 2008. Passed the Senate October 1, 2008 and signed by President Bush October 3, 2008. Raised the debt ceiling $700 Billion. source:

For those of you keeping track on your calculators, the debt ceiling was raised 7 times for a combined total of $5.365 Trillion.


Article Comment bella5425 commented at 6/3/2011 1:54:00 PM:

i can't wait until president obama is elected to a second term. the republicans have noone strong enough to beat him. look at the morons the repubs love to listen to; palin, bachmann, glenn beck, limbaugh.... i wouldn't trust a republican to make the right vote no matter what. god, i'm glad i'm not living in columbus anymore, it stifled me for decades. obama 2012, that's where the smart vote lies.


Article Comment hope commented at 6/3/2011 3:56:00 PM:

And who knows how much revenue has been lost because of the depression that happened right under the watchful eyes of the Republicans.


Article Comment frank commented at 6/3/2011 5:42:00 PM:

Time to wake up old Leroy. He ain't never seen no wreck like we are fixin' to have.


Article Comment raider commented at 6/3/2011 5:46:00 PM:

oneeyedking...there you go trying to confuse republicans by using facts. Sooner or later you all will learn that facts does not matter to the followers of FAUXnews. It's more soothing to them to pretend that 2001 - 2009 did not happen.

There was nothing "false" about the cartoon that was run describing Paul Ryan's so called plan. It shouldn't even be called a plan. A more accurate description would be "a big fat pile of crap". In the end it would raise the cost of health care for the poor, which would mean most of them could not afford the insurance which will mean a quicker death for poor people. Which by the way is a goal of the rethug/tea party folks.


Article Comment frank commented at 6/4/2011 8:22:00 AM:

Halfway through Obummer's third year. 14 TRILLION dollars in debt. Unemployment is RISING. The value of the dollar is FALLING. Gasoline is approaching $4 a gallon. Healthcare costs have gone UP, not down. Keynesian economics of Obama/Bernanke have run out of stimulus rope. ie. bailouts-QE1-QE2. Food price inflation. The economy is slipping back into recession.

The blame game is not going to fly this time folks. Big O has a record to run on and it is indeed a big ZERO. The hope is gone and the change was negative. You want facts? Fine, you run him on the facts.


Article Comment hope commented at 6/4/2011 3:13:00 PM:

@frank:When President Obama was sworn in, the economy was losing 780,000 jobs a month, not a year. The price of gas was also $4.00 two months before he was sworn in. Healthcare costs have gone up, but many more people will be covered by "OBAMACARE." The economy may not be slipping back into a recession. One day doesn't make the stock market, and one month doesn't make a recession. The Bush blame game will be on until we get out of this depression that the Bush Republicans, who claim to be such fine stewards of the taxpayers' dollars, left for President Obama and the Democrats.
The GOP destroyed our economy.
The price of oil under Bush was $147 a barrel and under President Obama $112. Maybe you can explain to us why the price of a gallon of gas was $4.00 in each case.


Article Comment hope commented at 6/4/2011 6:08:00 PM:

@zenreaper:Yes, we understand that the rich control the prices, especially since gas is $4.00 a gallon. We also understand the businessman can take a pencil to mark the price up to get a raise but only to what the traffic will stand, but the Republicans don't want the people to have any "sayso" as to what they should make. If they want to pay you slave labor salary, we are suppose to accept it and keep our mouth shut. Since this most recent election, more people are finding this out and you can bet come 2012, it will show bigtime.


Article Comment frank commented at 6/4/2011 6:11:00 PM:

"When President Obama was sworn in..."

You can keep trying, but leading off your comments or the 2012 campaign by blaming others is not going to fly this time. Obummer promised to fix it and now has a record he must run on. Keep on telling the American people that 9.1% unemployment, hyperinflation, and doubling the national debt in two years is a good thing. Just keep on blaming Bush after 4 years of Democratic control. Keep it up. It is flying like a lead balloon and headed for a crash just like our new Keynesian economy. Old Jimmy Carter is in great danger of losing his place as the worst President in modern times. After Jimmy we had 12 years of Republicans. At the rate Obummer is going we may not see another liberal Democrat in office for decades!

I like this blame game strategy. Keep it up!


Article Comment raider commented at 6/5/2011 2:01:00 PM:

Jimmy Carter has lost his place as worst President. We had George W Bush... remember? He was the one that sent his treasury secretary to capital hill with the message that if they didn't pass the bank bailout, the world's economy would crash. Remember him? He's the one that lied and got us into a war of choice. Remember? GWB is the President that spent almost his whole presidency fighting wars and kept the financial cost off the books. Remember the guy who left us on the verge of another "great depression"? Remember the guy who did everything he could to keep the public from finding out that he had recieved the briefing stating that Osama bin Laden was determined to strike in american? Remember him? He's the worst president in american history. Remember that.

I welcome Obama running on his record. It's a hellva lot better than Bush ever had.


Article Comment zenreaper commented at 6/5/2011 3:44:00 PM:

Hey Hope, you DO realize that the Democrats controlled the LEGISLATIVE branch of our government for the last two years Bush was in office, right?

You want to know why oil per barrel was higher under Bush, yet the price was, percentage wise, cheaper ($147 per barrel under Bush, $112 under Obama, $4 per gallon under both)? Because Obama has stopped us from drilling, thereby forcing us to buy foreign oil and pay higher transportation costs and taxes. So get this, if the price of the raw material is MORE expensive under Bush, but the price of the finished product is the SAME, this means it was CHEAPER under Bush. Try taking an Econ101 calss sometime.

As for the Ryan plan, well, we would LIKE to point to the Senate's plan and discuss it. Unfortunately, there IS no budget plan from the Democrats, and according to Reid, they don't HAVE to present one. Yeah, makes it easier to simply criticize the OTHER guys plan.


Article Comment hope commented at 6/5/2011 4:30:00 PM:

@zenreaper:Surely you don't want your last comment to be factual!
Your real name has got to be Jon Kyle.


Article Comment frank commented at 6/5/2011 5:28:00 PM:

"I welcome Obama running on his record."

There you go Raider, something we can agree on! I welcome him running on his record too. I can hardly wait ... but I will believe it when I see it. I expect he will run on the blame game.

I will also go along with gWb being pretty bad but he did win a second term so Jimmy still has him trumped as the worst Pres. I think Big Zero is on track to take the crown though.


Article Comment zenreaper commented at 6/6/2011 11:39:00 AM:

Hope, that is, I guess, the difference between liberals and conservatives..."wants" have nothing to do with FACTS, they are simply facts.

But maybe YOU could explain why, under Bush, oil was $147 a barrel, and gas was $4 a gallon, and now oil is at $112 a barrel, and gas is at $4 a gallon. I mean that would involve you actually doing some research and presenting your OWN facts, but I have faith in you, you can do it.


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