July 15, 2011 6:14:00 PM
The fast approaching Congressional Debt Ceiling deadline is playing out as a slow motion train wreck, one that has perhaps a fair chance of becoming a full blown economic train wreck.
While there is blame on both political parties, I am again aghast at the current methods of the Republican Party I spent 30 years within.
Using the debt ceiling increase as a political hostage is profoundly irresponsible. While Republicans control only one House of Congress, they demand they be able to completely dictate the conditions of the debate. Ordinarily you need a voting majority to do this. By holding this debt vote hostage, they seek to extort their desires instead of winning them in a vote. One Republican Senator, Rand Paul of Kentucky, has threatened to filibuster any vote to raise the ceiling so it will fail.
Republican rationales for this extraordinary and egregious maneuver fall flat. They characterize their actions as taking the credit card away from an overspending Federal government. Actually, raising the debt ceiling will pay for past spending, not cut off future spending.
And what produced this recent, outsized, debt that the debt ceiling increase will pay for, you ask? Why, two wars and an expensive drug bill, all funded off-budget, coupled with three federal tax cuts, all brought to us by the previous, Republican, administration. Yet, somehow the Republicans want us to believe the current administration ran up all these bills and must be corralled.
From one point of view (Keynesian) the government spent too little on stimulus, not too much. After the initial stimulus bill in 2009, the economy stopped falling and started slowly recovering. Since the 2010 election, however, the economy has stalled as no further stimulus or government aid to states has been proposed or approved. In addition, President Obama has moved toward the middle ground of the debate and joined Republicans in calling, incredulously, for austerity in the face of a faltering economy, tantamount to bleeding a patient to help him recover. His reward for such a move has resulted in unemployment going up recently instead of down.
The second Republican policy non-sequitur is their prediction that further lowering tax rates and cutting federal spending will produce jobs, except these two policies have been in place for the past year and a half and have not created jobs. Tax income as a percentage of the GNP is the lowest since the Eisenhower administration, how low do they want to go? Also, repeated lowering of tax rates not off-set by spending cuts by the last administration produced much of the current deficit and presaged a devastating recession. Have we forgotten so soon?
Finally, this debt limit extortion attempt means either party can now use similar ploys in the future so the minority party can hamstring the majority on anything, any time. Do Republicans not realize they are creating a monster that may devour us all in the future?
I suspect the Republicans are purposely thwarting any and all attempts to resuscitate the economy for crass political advantage in the 2012 election. They have proposed none of the jobs bills they promised and have even reneged on several jobs bills they had previously sponsored. What would their purpose be in this except to delay any economic recovery until after the upcoming election?
I see a strong temptation for Republicans to prevent a debt limit increase and to force repeated, temporary extensions that would each force federal spending cuts but forbid tax increases. This would keep their Tea Party fringe happy and result in a death-by-repeated-cuts accomplishment of Republican goals. It would also threaten a renewed recession, or worse, and produce several more years of high unemployment.
So I am preparing for a Republican, politically-induced, economic catastrophe and hoping we somehow escape as the electorate begins to understand the crude and self-serving basis of Republican actions that sacrifice American living standards for political gain.
Jay Lacklen is a retired Air Force Reserve pilot, who flew missions in Vietnam and Iraq. Presently he is simulator instructor at CAFB and is writing a book about his experiences in the Air Force.
frank commented at 7/15/2011 7:52:00 PM:
Geez, while you're drinking all that kool-aid tell us where Obama's budget is hidden. Maybe the GOP is just trying to make him shut up and put up. So far all we get is a daily dose of hot air, almost every blessed day since he took office he is on TV campaigning. Lots of velvet talk, no substance.
Oh and keep on blaming Bush. By election time the Dems will have controlled Congress for 6 years and the Presidency for 4. The blame Bush approach ought to work like a faulty hand grenade by then.
gogetum commented at 7/15/2011 8:30:00 PM:
Speaking of BHO-see what his old roomy has to say.
If Obama is re-elected in 2012, the US is finished.The following is in simple language that everyone can understand. Not the gibberish that our government keeps telling people.
OBAMA'S COLLEGE CLASSMATE SPEAKS OUT
By Wayne Allyn Root .
Barack Hussien Obama is no fool. He is not incompetent.
To the contrary, he is brilliant. He knows exactly what he's doing.
He is purposely overwhelming the U.S. economy to create systemic failure,
economic crisis and social chaos -- thereby destroying capitalism and
our country from within.
Barack Hussien Obama was my college classmate
( Columbia University , class of '83).
He is a devout Muslim do not be fooled.
Look at his Czars...anti-business..anti- american.
As Glenn Beck correctly predicted from day one, Barack Hussien Obama is
following the plan of Cloward & Piven, two professors at Columbia University ..
They outlined a plan to socialize America by overwhelming the system
with government spending and entitlement demands.
Add up the clues below. Taken individually they're alarming.
Taken as a whole, it is a brilliant, Machiavellian game plan to turn the United States into a socialist/Marxist state with a permanent majority that desperately needs government for survival ... and can be counted on to always vote for bigger government.
Why not? They have no responsibility to pay for it.
Universal health care . The health care bill had very little to do with health care. It had everything to do with unionizing millions of hospital and health care workers, as well as adding 15,000 to 20,000 new IRS agents (who will join government employee unions).
Obama doesn't care that giving free health care to 30 million Americans will add trillions to the national debt.
What he does care about is that it cements the dependence of those 30 million voters to Democrats and big government. Who but a socialist revolutionary would pass this reckless spending bill in the middle of a depression?
Cap and trade. Like health care legislation having nothing to do with
health care, cap and trade has nothing to do with global warming.
It has everything to do with redistribution of income, government control
of the economy and a criminal payoff to Obama's biggest contributors.
Those powerful and wealthy unions and contributors (like GE, which owns
NBC, MSNBC and CNBC) can then be counted on to support everything Obama wants.
They will kick-back hundreds of millions of dollars in contributions to
Obama and the Democratic Party to keep them in power.
The bonus is that all the new taxes on Americans with bigger cars,
bigger homes and businesses helps Obama "spread the wealth around."
Make Puerto Rico a state. Why? Who's asking for a 51st state?
Who's asking for millions of new welfare recipients and government
entitlement addicts in the middle of a depression? Certainly not American taxpayers. But this has been Barack Hussien Obama's plan all along.
His goal is to add two new Democrat senators, five Democrat congressman and a million loyal Democratic voters who are dependent on big government.
Legalize 12 million illegal Mexican immigrants.
Just giving these 12 million potential new citizens free health care alone could overwhelm the system and bankrupt America. But it adds 12 million reliable new Democrat voters who can be counted on to support big government.
Add another few trillion dollars in welfare, aid to dependent children,
food stamps, free medical, education, tax credits for the poor, and
eventually Social Security.
Stimulus and bailouts. Where did all that money go?
It went to Democrat contributors, organizations (ACORN), and unions -- including billions of dollars to save or create jobs of government employees across the country.
It went to save GM and Chrysler so that their employees could
keep paying union dues.
It went to AIG so that Goldman Sachs could be bailed out (after giving Obama almost $1 million in contributions).
A staggering $125 billion went to teachers (thereby protecting their union dues).
All those public employees will vote loyally Democrat to protect their
bloated salaries and pensions that are bankrupting America.
The country goes broke, future generations face a bleak future, but Obama, the Democrat Party, government, and the unions grow more powerful.
The ends justify the means.
Raise taxes on small business owners, high-income earners, and job
creators. Put the entire burden on only the top 20 percent of taxpayers, redistribute the income, punish success, and reward those who did nothing to deserve it (except vote for Obama).
Reagan wanted to dramatically cut taxes in order to starve the government. Barack Obama wants to dramatically raise taxes to starve his political opposition. With the acts outlined above, Barack Hussien Obama and his reand you've got the perfect Marxist scheme -- all devised by
my Columbia University college classmate Barack Hussien Obama using the Cloward and Piven Plan ...
"Correctly attributed" says snopes!
kj commented at 7/15/2011 9:29:00 PM:
Even lies may be correctly attributed to the person making them. Reagan did cut taxes; before he raised taxes. Obama isn't trying to dramatically raise taxes to starve his political opposition. The Bush tax cuts starved the U.S. Government while Bush and his Republican congress borrowed money to force feed government like one would force feed a goose to fatten its liver.
raider commented at 7/15/2011 10:06:00 PM:
"Correctly attributed" says snopes! doesn't make any of the content true. They should have added "correctly attributed to a nut." Mr. Root was the VP candidate for the Libetarian party. He's as wacky and as reckless as Glen Beck. Root was not BHO's "roomy". His claims is that he was a classmate of Obama's. Of coarse about 7000 other students can claim the same thing.
I wonder if people will still be putting this same dribble 30 years from now. But, I guess they will since they are still telling the lies about the deficit cutter that Ronald Reagan was.
hope commented at 7/15/2011 10:12:00 PM:
@gogetum;Obama is purposely overwhelming the economy---Bush certainly made it easier for him, as it was overwhelmed when Obama took over the reins. Bush had made it a cakewalk for him.
Free healthcare. I'm for it! The next time I go to the DR., I will tell him don't send me a bill. It's FREE!
The country goes broke--------------Don't you remember Bush asking for $700 billion and if he didn't get it, our country would be in a depression. Do you know what a depression is, gogetum? The country was already broke when President Obama took over.
If Rupert Murdoch reads your comments, you're hired!
observer2 commented at 7/15/2011 11:38:00 PM:
hopeless got both feet in mouth again. I have an answer for hope, gotetum, Depression= Depression may be described as feeling sad, blue, unhappy, miserable, or down in the dumps. hope and the other two or three libs in columbus will feel this way come election night 2012. I predict one of those Reagan like landslides for the GOP and naturally it will mean deep dark depression and excessive misery for hope's small band of libs. Maybe some gloom and despair thrown in too just like on the old hew haw show.
hope commented at 7/16/2011 7:23:00 AM:
frank commented at 7/16/2011 8:16:00 AM:
Hee Haw did have a Jackass on their logo. That fits perfectly! Obummer's next cash for clunkers Keynesian spending bill should use BR549.gov for a web address. :-)
hope commented at 7/16/2011 9:40:00 AM:
@gogetum;look at his czars-anti-business, anti-American.
Bush's $700 billion stimulus created a -9 million jobs. Wouldn't you say that was anti-business?
Under Bush, more jobs left going to communist China than any other President. American jobs going to a communist country, does that not seem anti-American to you?
zenreaper commented at 7/16/2011 3:13:00 PM:
Hope, and the other kool aid crinkers here, I have a question for you. If YOU own a car, and you sell that car to ME, and I run over a small child with it, would it be fair to say YOUR car ran over a small child? Of course not. So to take the "Bush" tax cuts, that were EXTENDED by the Democrats when they controlled both houses and the Presidency is the same thing.
The Democrats had FOUR YEARS to pass something. They have not submitted a budget in over 900 DAYS. They could have raised taxes, they could have cut spending. Instead, they QUADRUPLED the previous "Outrageous Bush Deficit", and EXTENDED the tax cuts. So if increasing spending and cutting taxes were bad when BUSH did it, wouldn't they also be bad when the DEM'S do it?
Oh, and since the stimulus was passed while BUSH was PRESIDENT (executive branch), and Obama was a Senator (legislative branch, and holders of the purse strings), who stimulus was it REALLY? Bush made a LOT of mistakes, but you are being disingenuinous when you blame Bush for something then support Obama for doing the same thing.
Forget the debt ceiling increase, cut SPENDING, then TALK about raising taxes...but cut spending first, then see how high the taxes have to go to make up the difference.
mr. jordan commented at 7/16/2011 3:57:00 PM:
The Bush tax cuts were extended initially because the economy was on the threshold of a depression.
The deficit Bush bequeathed to Obama was $10 trillion. It is now $14 trillion, much of which was spent avoiding the depression. I'm not sure where you get your "quadrupling".
Bush cut taxes when the economy was doing fairly well, just when you should not. Democrats only favor taxes on the wealthy who now control a record percentage of American wealth and pay an effective 16% tax rate.
As for ending things first, consider ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan before you try to save money by decimating the social safety net.
zenreaper commented at 7/16/2011 5:35:00 PM:
"The Bush tax cuts were extended initially because the economy was on the threshold of a depression"
And you advocate ending them NOW, because we are doing so much BETTER? Come on, think man!
"The deficit Bush bequeathed to Obama was $10 trillion. It is now $14 trillion, much of which was spent avoiding the depression. I'm not sure where you get your "quadrupling"."
Perhaps you should learn the difference between DEBT and DEFICIT. There is currently a 14.3 trillion dollar DEBT. Bush's last DEFICIT was 500+ Billion, Obama's was almost 2 TRILLION.
"Democrats only favor taxes on the wealthy who now control a record percentage of American wealth and pay an effective 16% tax rate"
So what? They WORKED for that money. They INVESTED, they RISKED, and they were SUCCESSFUL. What is the "effective" tax rate of the POOR? ZERO? LESS than zero? So your idea of "fair" is to take those paying NOTHING and continue to have them pay nothing, and take those paying 16% and have them pay MORE. How is that "fair"?
"As for ending things first, consider ending the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan before you try to save money by decimating the social safety net."
Okay, sounds good. Gee, who controlled the ABILITY to do that for the last two years? Oh yeah, Democrats. And what did they do? Well, we went to war in Libya and Yemen. I guess that was Bush's fault as well, right?
frank commented at 7/16/2011 5:35:00 PM:
"Bush cut taxes when the economy was doing fairly well"
Jordie, Jordie, the Bush tax cuts were passed in 2001 & 2003. Everyone seems to forget that the market crashed when the Clinton bubble burst. As bad as Bush was, he too inherited a "busted" economy that was thumped again by the 9/11 attacks, but one thing you can say for him is that he didn't spend the next 4 years blaming Clinton. He made some errors no doubt, but at least he took actions and assumed responsibility for them.
It has become patently obvious that Obama is all talk, all the time. The American public has figured it out. They are tired of hearing him pass the buck and stir class warfare in order to hide the fact that he is incompetent. He is not LEADING and has lost the respect of many even in his own party. His approval ratings should be a flashing red beacon to you and the other liberals on here that what I am saying is true. He has been exposed as a dud.
I would not be surprised to see Hillary drop her SS job and actually challange this sitting incumbent for the Democratic nomination. I think she would win it easily. Now that would be darned interesting!
hope commented at 7/16/2011 7:20:00 PM:
@gogetum:Glenn Beck knew President Obama's plan, but he had no plan of his own. Does that sound like a man that someone could depend on? He started lying so heavy that even Murdoch, the UK scumbag, had to let him go. Yea, I know he has a plan now, but not of his own making.
mr. jordan commented at 7/16/2011 7:29:00 PM:
Here is an explanation of Obama's $4 trillion debt from U.S. News and World report:
"The recession. High unemployment, lost wages and other effects of the 2007-2009 recession have lopped perhaps $1.5 trillion off government tax revenue, effectively forcing Washington to borrow that amount to keep operating at a consistent level. Stimulus spending, bailouts, and other emergency measures meant to keep the economy afloat have cost at least $2 trillion more. So the recession has probably added $4 trillion or so to the national debt. It's easy for critics to argue that the government shouldn't have spent as much as it did during the recession. But if it hadn't, and the recession had been deeper or longer, tax revenues would have plunged even more."
hope commented at 7/16/2011 7:33:00 PM:
@frank---The recession didn't start until 2007. How could Bush blame Clinton when Clinton left Bush a surplus?
frank commented at 7/16/2011 8:21:00 PM:
Historyless Hopeless...How about turning off MSNBC for a few days and do some research on your own? At the end of Fiscal year 2000 the national debt was: $5,674,178,209,886.86 That's 5 Trillion with a T. That is what Bush got from Slick Willy with a recession thrown in to boot. Your hero Obummer has added, in just 3 years, almost as much additional debt ($4 Trillion) as we had accumulated during the entire first 200+ years the United States existed as a nation! If this doesn't alarm you, I recommend you get an EEG immediately. Did Bush blame Clinton? Did Reagan blame Carter? Did Kennedy blame Ike? Hell no. Time for Obummer to stop whining and start LEADING. Trouble is, he isn't capable of it.
Like Zen said: Would you and Jordie please look up the definitions of debt and deficit.
frank commented at 7/16/2011 8:31:00 PM:
Obummer should buy an old AM radio station. Get the call letters kDUD. Have the Hee-Haw jackass do station IDs and use the slogan: ALL TALK - ALL THE TIME!
Obama's a dud. Hillary 2012! Pass it on.
loud-silence commented at 7/16/2011 10:52:00 PM:
You will find that whoever gets into power in your whitehouse that the banks and big business will continue to hold the ultimate power. We in the uk and most EU countries have puppets for them to control. Bush, Obama, Clinton.It wont matter, democracy has never been implemented from the word go. As 1% of the nations populations hold 95% of the wealth and also control the elected, the common people have no say in what happens in a country. no matter what country. workers are a drain on profits and should be treated as such in there minds. Plutonomy lives in the uk as in the good ol' US of A. Shout as loud as you like as individuals, but you will not be heard.
zenreaper commented at 7/16/2011 11:37:00 PM:
Hope, there was NO Clinton surplus, do I have to explain that again?
roscoe p. coltrain commented at 7/17/2011 5:07:00 AM:
Do any of you think this finger pointing is going to accomplish anything? Are you going to feel a lot better sitting in the ruins of what used to be knowing you made sure to shove your finger in the face of those Liberals, Conservatives, Left-wing, Right-wing, etc. one more time?
Are you so stupid you don't realize this behavior is what has brought you to the place you are now? Is this game of political football you mindlessly dabble in more important than the fact your elected officials are scaring the hell out of Senior Citizens who depend on that SSI check to survive?
Well sure it is... after all you keep electing the same fools to office based on party affiliations, name recognition, or whatever other lame excuse you've got for putting up with these Congressional Clowns for all these years.
Even a dog knows better than to mess in his own bed: what's your excuse?
hope commented at 7/17/2011 8:36:00 AM:
@roscoe p. coltrain----------Save us all!
We need one more law that money paid to a lobbyist would be a bribe.
hope commented at 7/17/2011 9:15:00 AM:
@zenreaper;no, you don't have to explain it again. By now, everybody knows if it was a surplus, Bush spent it. If it was a deficit, Bush made it bigger.
frank commented at 7/17/2011 9:22:00 AM:
Oh how profound you are Roscoe. The truck driver who is trapped in Columbus, MS. and lives in the swamp has spoken. All hail.
frank commented at 7/17/2011 9:33:00 AM:
loud silence who wants his king back. We all see how well the UK and Eurozone works. Take your socialism and be a quiet silence. Thank You.
bubbabean50 commented at 7/17/2011 11:27:00 AM:
We are doomed! what chance do we have when we have so many morons who think you resolve debt with more debt! For Goodness sake, THINK you idiots! When it finally comes apart, and it will, watch all the traitors eat their own. In the meantime just keep believing that tomorrow will be like today. For all of us with discernment, thank God for a mind that works and then brace for impact!
hope commented at 7/17/2011 1:22:00 PM:
@gogetum;stimulus and bailouts---------where did that money go.
The U.S. government spent nearly $400 billion, mostly through tax breaks, in 2009 to promote home ownership and other wealth building strategies and more than half of that benefited the wealthiest 5% of taxpayers, said the study sponsored by the nonprofit Annie E. Casey Foundation and the Corporation for Enterprise Development.
Yes, some of it went to GM and Chrysler so their workers could keep on paying union dues. And some of it went to members of the Chamber of Commerce, so they could also pay their dues.
GM is #2 in selling the most vehicles. Money well spent!
melody commented at 7/17/2011 1:27:00 PM:
Been away for awhile- bet I haven't missed much. Looks like hopeless is still hopeless and lost in the midst of the liberal lamestream media. frank probably needs to use a 2x4 as an attention getter before presenting facts to hope, may or may not work. Looks like kj is still making personal attacks on Mr. Allgood while putting others down for making personal attacks, a typical liberal tactic. Old rosco is still doing a bang up job with those thought provoking post, I wish he'd tell us how he really feels about things,ha. I got some figures that might be a good place to begin the big cut back: Roger Burke says Salary of the US President...$400,000. Salary of retired US Presidents...$180,000. Salary of House/Senate...$174,000. Salary of Speaker of House...$223,500....Salary of Majority/Minority Leaders...$193,400.....Average US Salary...$33,000 to $77,000. Plus all those millions given monthly to congressmen and senators who have left office, even after one term?? HELLO! I think we found where the cuts should be made! CAN YOU HEAR ME NOW? If you agree , let them hear from you!!
hope commented at 7/17/2011 1:38:00 PM:
@gogetum;make Puerto Rico the 51st state? "WRONG AGAIN!"
It's Southern California who wants to become the 51st state.
gogetum, you should get more facts before you make comments, or you may go the way of NEWS of the WORLD.
kj commented at 7/17/2011 1:44:00 PM:
Melody, my criticism of Allgood is based on his job performance (technically, on his inability to perform his job well). I find it difficult to believe that you are unable to distinguish between that sort of honest criticism and the types of ad hominem attacks that you regularly make against other commenters in this forum.
hope commented at 7/17/2011 1:52:00 PM:
@melody;may be the only comment of yours' that I agree with. I would like to add a 'coupla more. Take away their secret service escorts and their healthcare benefits. On healthcare, let Paul Ryan present them yearly with an $8,000 voucher, especially Dick Cheney.
hope commented at 7/17/2011 3:48:00 PM:
@gogetum:Reagan wanted to dramatically cut taxes to starve government.
TAXES:What people forget about Reagan!
Federal spending was above average during the Reagan years, 22.4% vs. 20.7%. Two bills passed in 1982 and 1984 together constituded the biggest tax increase ever enacted during peacetime.
You did say Reagan wanted to.
observer2 commented at 7/17/2011 3:49:00 PM:
Well, melody, after one little innocent post you get jumped by two libs. Sure didn't take long to stir them up, way to go. I can't remember any of those ad hominems that were made by you. If so , it can't be any worse than some I recall coming from kj, bless his heart. Maybe he could enlighten us with an example or two. What you said about hope is based on her performance as a commenter in the past and I agree that hope gets all her doctrine from the liberal media based on her comments as well. Here's a little thing I found on the net about personal attacks= THE AD HOMINEM FALLACY FALLACY
One of the most widely misused terms on the Net is "ad hominem". It is most often introduced into a discussion by certain delicate types, delicate of personality and mind, whenever their opponents resort to a bit of sarcasm. As soon as the suspicion of an insult appears, they summon the angels of ad hominem to smite down their foes, before ascending to argument heaven in a blaze of sanctimonious glory. They may not have much up top, but by george, they don't need it when they've got ad hominem on their side. It's the secret weapon that delivers them from any argument unscathed.
In reality, ad hominem is unrelated to sarcasm or personal abuse. Argumentum ad hominem is the logical fallacy of attempting to undermine a speaker's argument by attacking the speaker instead of addressing the argument. The mere presence of a personal attack does not indicate ad hominem: the attack must be used for the purpose of undermining the argument, or otherwise the logical fallacy isn't there. It is not a logical fallacy to attack someone; the fallacy comes from assuming that a personal attack is also necessarily an attack on that person's arguments.
Therefore, if you can't demonstrate that your opponent is trying to counter your argument by attacking you, you can't demonstrate that he is resorting to ad hominem. If your opponent's sarcasm is not an attempt to counter your argument, but merely an attempt to insult you (or amuse the bystanders), then it is not part of an ad hominem argument.
Actual instances of argumentum ad hominem are relatively rare. Ironically, the fallacy is most often committed by those who accuse their opponents of ad hominem, since they try to dismiss the opposition not by engaging with their arguments, but by claiming that they resort to personal attacks. Those who are quick to squeal "ad hominem" are often guilty of several other logical fallacies, including one of the worst of all: the fallacious belief that introducing an impressive-sounding Latin term somehow gives one the decisive edge in an argument.
But enough vagueness. The point of this article is to bury the reader under an avalanche of examples of correct and incorrect usage of ad hominem, in the hope that once the avalanche has passed, the term will never be used incorrectly again.
hope commented at 7/17/2011 4:33:00 PM:
@gogetum;down memory lane.
Could you take a few minutes to explain to the Democrats, Republicans, Muslims, illegal immgrants, socialists, unions, IRS agents, Obama's classmate, the 30 million people who are going to get free healthcare, the Czars, GE,NBC, MSNBC, CNBC, GS, AIG, Columbia University, Glenn Beck, the poor, GM, Chrsyler and mostly to gogetum, why Barrack Obama was elected President of the United States of America?
frank commented at 7/17/2011 6:39:00 PM:
If you really want to understand the debt crisis and are tired of the hot air and fear mongering like this Lacklen column is spreading, I suggest you go read this article. It might surprise you who the man is that is being interviewed. Even you libs will recognize his resume.
kj commented at 7/17/2011 8:21:00 PM:
"Jumped," eh? I think that a even a cursory review of Melody's past posting will show that they consist overwhelmingly of "attempt[s] to undermine a speaker's argument by attacking the speaker instead of addressing the argument."
hope commented at 7/17/2011 8:39:00 PM:
@frank----This Lacklen column is no fear mongering. Fox has people so brain washed, that they either don't know the truth or refuse to believe it when they read it. They are controlling the political sytem here as in the UK. It's whatever is good for the rich, not the people. They could restore sanity to our politicians if they would have opposing views. Another way to restore sanity would be to outsource all Republican politicians and their lobbyists and seal our borders so they couldn't get back in.
zenreaper commented at 7/17/2011 9:14:00 PM:
"It's whatever is good for the rich, not the people."
Um, the military is paid through Semptember 30th, per the last CRA. And Social Security has 2.7 billion in its coffers to cover the checks to granny. So the ONLY reason the debt limit needs to be raised is to pay the interest on Tresury Bond holders. How many POOR people own treasury bonds?
frank commented at 7/17/2011 9:42:00 PM:
Didja follow the link I posted Hopeless? You have to copy and paste it into your browser. Do you know how to do that? It is an interview with the former investment advisor of that poor poor liberal guy George Soros. You will enjoy it. And for what it is worth, I watch CNBC most of the time. I learned a long time ago that if you really want to know what is happening, follow the money.
roscoe p. coltrain commented at 7/18/2011 8:20:00 AM:
"I watch CNBC most of the time". That makes me special. Wanna kiss my pinkie ring?
All hail Frank. Holder of the pinkie ring, tiny sack, and peanut head.
hope commented at 7/18/2011 8:29:00 AM:
@gogetum;let me give you a clue to why Obama was elected President.
Starting with Hoover who created a full blown depression that took over eight years to recover from, to Nixon who was the lyingest President we ever had, to Ronald Reagan who took advice from his star gazing wife, to Bush who left our country probably in the worst shape ever, that we may never recover from.
When you put the facts on the REPUBLICANS, they go into a rage and start criticizing someone who is trying to fix the mess they created.
Vote Republican? You got to be kidding. Our country can't stand anymore of their phony capitalism.
melody commented at 7/18/2011 9:09:00 AM:
hope, just what is phony capitalism?? As roscoe would say, you forgot to take your medicine today. Did you hear Matthews mention it, the no thrill up my leg anymore guy? Yo mind is messed up with all his junk talk. Better go back to the history of Presidents again. You over looked Wilson, 1913-1021, who started the Fed. Reserve. Then FDR , 1933-1945. Then the viet nam war guy, LBJ, 63-69. Look also at the number of decades the dems have had control of the congress. If not for the Republican Presidents, starting with Lincoln, the first Repub President, you wouldn't be here today. Enlighten us with your phony capitalism knowledge rather than throwing out the expression you copied from msnbc.
frank commented at 7/18/2011 9:17:00 AM:
Your message speaks for itself Rosco.
hope commented at 7/18/2011 10:57:00 AM:
@melody;phony capitalism-----making people believe the economy is good when it's not. Five weeks before the economy tanked, Bush said it was in good shape.
observer2 commented at 7/18/2011 11:53:00 AM:
Are you trying to make us believe what you heard on msnbc is factual? I thought you didn't believe anything GW said, I don't believe anything Barry says anymore and I know he could never MAKE me believe his words again.. Will you tell us at what point does the economy tank? Is tank one of those Matthew expressions? How do you tell when the economy is good or bad? In your own words now, ok. Is it the dow jones numbers that tells you , if so , where is the line that tells you that the economy is bad or good? Even if you believe the economy was in good shape,as you call it, five weeks ago, the dow jones can crash in just one day if that's what you mean by tanking.
hope commented at 7/18/2011 2:37:00 PM:
Come on, all you gungho Republicans, who are going to take back our country, and Obama bashers, tell the people why Obama was elected President.
zenreaper commented at 7/18/2011 3:24:00 PM:
@hope: Obama was elected because we have ceased to hold people accountable for what they have DONE, and instead look at what TITLES that have held. 235 years after liberating ourselves from a ruling class, we have created ANOTHER ruling class. Oh, and Obama was elected because he spent a CRAP LOAD of money to convince people that if you DIDN'T vote for him, you were a racist. Oh, and if you DID vote for him, he would make should those "rich" folks got their comeuppence, and the poor folks would be given more stuff.
I am not a Republican, I am a libertarian, I think they are ALL crooks.
roscoe p. coltrain commented at 7/19/2011 4:22:00 AM:
Oh I see. Your comments are profound and mine speak for themselves. How egocentric of you.
Frank? Isn't that the same noise one can expect to hear if one spends enough time at the rear end of an elephant? Fraaaank... I think so.
And you are cracking me up with the swamp comment dude. I've lived in a swamp when I lived in LA... you obviously don't know what a swamp is. I'm sure that by now you're use to not knowing a lot of things, well, unless you're told it on CNBC.
It's not a swamp dude, it's a ditch operated by a lazy city, a lazy street department, and an equally lazy Mayor, but it's gonna all work out in the wash.
I'm not that easy to beat.
hope commented at 7/19/2011 8:44:00 AM:
@gogetum;haven't seen your comment why Obama was elected President of the United States. Are you waiting for a reply from Fox?
Did raider make you out a liar?
hope commented at 7/20/2011 2:25:00 PM:
The election in Wisconsin yesterday is the start of an epedemic to take away the power of dictators, and restore it back to the people.
hope commented at 7/21/2011 12:19:00 PM:
@The most famous trickle down economics President, to most Republicans, Reagan, had the debt limit raised 18 times.
That's hard to believe! And over half of the Republicans who are in Washington now, voted to do it.
Talking about being two/face.
zenreaper commented at 7/21/2011 5:44:00 PM:
"And over half of the Republicans who are in Washington now, voted to do it. Talking about being two/face.
How about the PRESIDENT, Barack Obama, and his feelings on raising the debt limit:
"The fact that we are here today to debate raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can't pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government's reckless fiscal policies. ... Increasing America's debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that 'the buck stops here. Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better."
Of course, that was in 2006, when he voted AGAINST raising the debt ceiling.
hope commented at 7/21/2011 10:44:00 PM:
@zenreaper;raising America's debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. He is absolutely correct in the fact that most of our debt now was inherited by him and the rest of it since he has been in office was from the wars, taxes that were lost from people being out of work because of the depression he inherited, the taxbreaks of '01 and '03, and the stimulus that was needed to revive our economy from the crash.
mr. jordan commented at 7/23/2011 6:41:00 PM:
Debt Crisis: Deal Sought to Head Off Stock Plunge
MARKETS, DEBT CRISIS, US DEBT, CONGRESS, OBAMA, DEBT DEAL, US DEFICIT, POLITICS, GOVERNMENT
CNBC.com | 23 Jul 2011 | 06:26 PM ET
Precariously short of time, congressional leaders struggled in urgent, weekend-long talks to avert an unprecedented government default, desperate to show enough progress to head off a plunge in stock prices when Asian markets open ahead of the U.S. workweek.
President Barack Obama met Saturday with Republican and Democratic leaders -- but only briefly -- the day after House Speaker John Boehner abruptly broke off his own once-promising compromise talks with the White House. Staff members kept up detailed efforts.
The goal now is to produce at least a framework agreement to raise the nation's debt limit by Monday, congressional officials said. Even that would allow scarcely enough time for the House and Senate to clear legislation in time for Obama's signature by the Aug. 2 deadline, a week from Tuesday.
House Speaker John Boehner told rank-and-file Republicans in a conference call after Saturday's meeting that he hoped to be able to announce a "viable framework for progress" by 4 p.m. EDT on Sunday, before the stock markets open in Japan and elsewhere in Asia, according to two participants. He was meeting Saturday evening with House Democratic leader Nancy Pelosi, Senate Majority leader Harry Reid and Senate Republican leader Mitch McConnell.
Lawmakers fear a big drop in investor confidence in U.S. stocks and bonds could start in Asia and sweep toward Europe and the Americas, causing U.S. stock values to plunge on Monday.
mr. jordan commented at 7/24/2011 4:02:00 AM:
WASHINGTON -- House Speaker John Boehner (R-Ohio) is set to call the Democratic Party's bluff on the debt ceiling. The Ohio Republican, in a briefing with his conference on Saturday, announced that he would press for a short-term deal, with major spending cuts paired with longer-term deficit-reduction strategies, as a way around the current impasse.
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