April 15, 2010 10:52:00 AM
The Boston Tea Party was not only a protest against taxation without representation, it was also a rejection of tyranny. Tyranny results from not protecting our freedom.
Wanna-be tyrants are easily recognizable by their support of: big government, elevating the weak, demonizing the strong, taxing the rich to gain support from the poor, abortion, gun control, nationalization of industry, making friends with other tyrants and similar little cutesies.
Essentially it boils down to truth or error. Which would you choose? Truth propagates freedom. Error leads to ruin.
A long time ago Saint Anthony Claret wrote these words: "Choose now what you would have chosen when it is too late."
Mr. Jordan commented at 4/16/2010 9:55:00 AM:
I have a few questions for you on your points.
1. Tyranny. I'm unclear about your definition of this word. I hope it does not mean those who have a differing view from yours are automatically tyrants. Tyrants are not elected by a majority vote, the current administration was.
2. If tyranny results from not protecting our freedoms, where have you been since 2001? The Bush administration perpetrated massive violations of the 4th and 6th Amendments and not only established government snooping into our private correspondence, but even had the audacity to question habeus corpus, the foundation of western civilization, and basic due process.
3. Big government: that is what inflicted answer two on us, but I don't remember you complaining when George Bush was violating the Constitution.
4. Elevating the weak: do you mean providing a social safety net? Are receipients of Medicare and Social Security "weak"? Do you receive either, or plan to receive either? I'm sure we can quibble over the level of funding for the safety net, but I think we would agree it is necessary, for any one of us can become weak due to illness or accident.
5. Taxing the rich to gain support of the poor. I have news for you, Ed, the greatest wealth transfer of the past few years has been from middle America to the Wall Street plutocracy enabled by the lax regulation mantra of the Republican party since Ronald Reagan. Wall Street firms awarded themselves hundred million dollar bonuses as payment for nearly wrecking the world financial system. To keep your attention diverted during this shell game, they are pointing to the socialist boogeyman so you won't ask what they hell they were doing to destroy $19 trillion in economic value, some of it yours, and getting rich for doing so.
5. Gun control. Ed, surely you are not one of those men who cannot face the world without a gun while 90% of women can and do?
6. Nationalization of industry. Ed, dude, those industries were nationalized because they were bankrupt. Had they not been nationalized, they would be gone and so would their jobs and, perhaps, our economy.
7. Making friends with tyrants. Talking with adversaries is salutory, as is this conversation we are having, for example.
8. Truth propogates freedom. Yes, and truth is attained by exploring all sides of a question. Neither you, nor I, should declare we have a monopoly on it.
Since you are employing multiple platitudes, I will give you one from your own side from Ben Franklin:
Those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither.
sickintired commented at 4/16/2010 11:53:00 AM:
Hey Jordan, who dis Bush man you talk bout? You badder open yo eyes to what is hapnin da presunt. I not a rich man but dat dood who stay in da white house is taking mo of what little I do got. You needs to stop libbing in da pass . Rite now I don't care who said what or who did what back den, I jus cant wait till nov so wees can get shed of da eval ones up air in dc. Den in nov 12 get shed of dat big liar from air whitehouse. You sho dont know much bout wemen. My momma pack da heat all da time and will soona fill you with led dan look at you. I gess I just wasting my time wit sheu cause you who suppott dis obama dude tink day know it all and just try to put down da majordy. Dats rite, dee majordy of ameracans dun sick of dis dude and his admin so you is in de minordy witt few udder blin librals.
Centrist commented at 4/16/2010 12:56:00 PM:
The eight questions Mr. Jordan asked deserve thoughtful answers, not linguistic cleverness masking the fact that sickintired adds nothing to the conversation. His dislike of Obama is obvious...the reason for his feelings apparenty remain hidden even to himself, but certainly to us.. This subject deserves sound debate and intelligent discussion as Mr. Jordan has attempted, not inane, boilerplate responses disguised as jokes. As far as not caring what went on in the past..."Those who cannot learn from history are doomed to repeat it." G. Santayana)
bear commented at 4/16/2010 12:58:00 PM:
I think sickintired made much more sense (sic and all) than "Mr" Jordan's whining, it's all Bush's fault. Tyranny is violating God given/Contitutionally defined lberties. When Jordan alludes to gun ownership (contitutionally protected) to be some superfluous luxury, that's and earmark of tyranny. Jordan free healthcare (unconstitutional) is a superfluous luxury, reserved for those who work for it. Must I remind Jordan that one of his liberal icons placed Japanese Americans in concentration camps (upheld by two Supreme Court rulings). Hmmmm, and you're still whining about the Patriot Act??? I don't hear whining from the survivors/descendents of those Japanese concentration camps. Truth is, sir, your argument does not/has not/will not stand the test when faced with facts and logic, that is why the majority of Americans are already fed up with your Presidnet and his policies.
gogetum commented at 4/16/2010 1:47:00 PM:
WAY TO GO BEAR! I agree that sickintired has made good sense and my wife packs heat too and will continue to do so as long as we live in Columbus. I carry old rosco myself , thank God for our founding fathers who knew what they were doing with that old constitution thing. I agree that the few libs that remain don't have a leg to stand on when faced with the facts and there's no need to try debating facts. It usually ends up with the libs resorting to name calling and falsly judging people.
What made me chuckle about Mr. Jordan was his intent to ask questions and then to start preaching a sermon. Finally asked one question about the gun thing which was an attempted put down. I wonder what the true percentage of us is who actually tote a weapon. Much more than just those who pay for the expensive permit for sure! Wake up Mr. J.
The centrist surely has his head where the sun don't shine if he really thinks he's in the middle. Today's centrist is way left of center, just for his info.
JC commented at 4/16/2010 5:12:00 PM:
We have representation to go with our taxation, and we do not have tyranny (Obama earned 53% of the vote, and Congress is democratically elected).
So what was all this about tea parties again?
JC commented at 4/16/2010 5:30:00 PM:
It's a real shame we can't buy guns anymore, now that Obama is president. That must be why Gary's went out of business.
Raider commented at 4/16/2010 6:11:00 PM:
Execellent post Mr. Jordan. Mr. Phillips speaks of truth yet the premise of his opposition is based on lies. The health care legislation was passed by the elected represenatives of the people. It was not dictated by one person that controls the country. I bet Mr. Phillips was just fine with the Bush administration secretly wire-tapping citizens and then lying about it. When the illegal activity was reported in the news, the Bush administration investigated and threatened prosecution of the individual that leaked the information and the reporter who published the information. That is a true sign uf tyranny. But I would bet any amount of money that the same people who's accusing Obama of tyranny, didn't say a word in opposition to Bush at the time. As far as gun control, can someone please tell me when Obama attempted to take away anyones guns.
When it comes to taxes, 95% of the people recieved tax breaks this past year yet, Beck, Palin and Hannity told you that Obama was gonna raise your taxes and you all just believed it despite the fact that congress was passing one tax break after another. The truth is....Beck, Palin and Hannity had thier taxes raised. Those below 250,000 got a tax break. Just as Obama promised. However Beck, Palin and Hannity was able to convince thier followers that thier taxes was being raised. They convince thier followers to follow thier lies and go out and fight against thier fantom tax increase. What y'all need to realize is this...Beck, Palin and Hannity are using you to fight for a tax break for them, not the other way around. They could care less about your taxes.
observer2 commented at 4/16/2010 9:47:00 PM:
The tea baggers are a mixture of independents, dems and repubs. In fact the dems and independents out number the repubs. It's true that Obama did get elected by the majority of voters in the liberal states. Fla was the only turncoat from the south but we know why that happened--too many libs from up north retiring there . Now though, they wish they had stayed away from obama/biden. Two biggest jokes ever to be p and vp.
I know many people in several states who haven't seen that tax break and never will. Raider is still back there in the campaign -too proud to admit he screwed up and I mean big time by believing all the obama rhetoric. If Raider , JC and the other libs in this thread still believe in the obama promises, I think they need to check into GTR and plead for a brain exam. It's on record Raider-this guy has started so many new taxes you can't count them and more on the way. The vat will hit even those 49% who don't pay any income tax. You need to get up to date on facts about what these dems are doing. Our dist. one rep won't even answer simple easy questions. Maybe that's how JC advised him but I will not vote for him in Nov. I think Jeff Smith ought to run against him in the primary. However , it wouldn't make any difference in Nov-the Repub will win.
Raider commented at 4/16/2010 11:05:00 PM:
Observer2- as I said in my previous post, the premise of the opposition is based on lies. Your claim that independants and dems out number republicans in the tea party is a flat out lie. People who identify themselves as democrats in the tea party is only 5 percent. The tea party is simple the wacko right wing of the far right wing of the republican party. Despite the right wing news media trying to prop up the tea party, I don't believe there are very many members of the tea party. You said it's on the record that this guy has started so many new tax but you fail to identify a single one. but, I will help you out. He raised taxes for people making more than 250,000. That's what he said he would do during the campaigned. Instead of just lying, I try to do my research I would hope you would do the same.
link to CBS poll: http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20002529-503544.html
JC commented at 4/17/2010 7:54:00 AM:
observer2, with all due respect, there's not a word of truth in your post other than "Obama got elected by a majority."
What cracks me up is the claim that the teabaggers claim to be nonpartisan but they hate Travis Childers despite the fact that he votes just like they would want on almost all issues. He's probably more conservative than most Republicans in Congress. But that'll never satisfy the baggers; all they see is the "D" by his name. It's all just a big football game to you guys and you can't stand that you lost.
OPINION commented at 4/17/2010 12:03:00 PM:
There you go again jc showing your ignorance. Observer2 is up to date on the facts. Maybe you should do the same. He told the truth - you are just so wiped out on the Obama cool aid you don't want to believe the facts. So crawl back under your liberal rock until you can stop spreading the Obama lies about tax breaks, etc. It's not a game but that seems to be your perspective with all the little put down post you make. I don't think you're capable of offering anything constructive to a conservation until you can reconize the truth. What does the word hate mean to you, JC? It seems to be one of the liberal mind set words along with racist. Tell us what a racist is and what you mean by people hating the Honorable Travis Childers? I think you're wrong there too.
melody commented at 4/17/2010 12:20:00 PM:
gee whiz, raider. where do you get your news from? You're so far behind it ain't even funny. You're as bad off as the JC post . If JC ever gets up to date he'll probably start calling you a hatemonger.
JC commented at 4/17/2010 12:37:00 PM:
observer2's post didn't have any facts in it, OPINION. Nothing but (misspelled) Fox News jibber jabber.
That's the thing - when asked to provide any actual concrete facts about why they hate Obama, the teabaggers are at a loss. All they can do is spout re-heated rhetoric about "liberty" and "the Constitution" without providing any specifics about how their liberty has been curtailed or the Constitution violated.
That's because the teabagging fad is about only one thing: ODS.
Mr. Jordan commented at 4/17/2010 12:42:00 PM:
Let's try an experiment. I'll voice on complaint I have about Tea Partiers and we can discuss that issue instead of clubbing each other over stereotypes, hey? Then the TPs can cite a complaint about
my, our, view from the Obama perspective.
My TP complaint is that they are concerned about the economy, and taxes, and the Constitution, but they didn't start complaining until Obama's political rise in 2007 and 2008. Where were the Tea Partiers during the Bush administratin when the Constitution was repeatedly assaulted and the economy crashed more severely than any time since the Great Depression? None of this brought forth Tea Party anger, yet now they are "mad as wet hens". Why is that?
This is not a complaint about Bush (at the moment) it is a question about Tea Party principles that seem to rise selectively, and not according to espoused principles.
Justin commented at 4/18/2010 1:24:00 PM:
When with Democrats realize they are not running against George W. Bush anymore? In a little over two years, the question is going to be has Obama made the United States better or worse? If the Democrats keep running against Bush, they will lose in 2012.
It is fair to question tactics of either administration, especially as it relates the growth of the government. However, petty, partisan politics is going to destroy many of the things we enjoy.
Sharp Nasal Kent commented at 4/18/2010 3:30:00 PM:
It is fair to question tactics of either administration, especially as it relates the growth of the government.
Biggest Government Agency: Department of Homeland Security
President who created it: George W. Bush
Complaints from te@b@gger types at the time: Zero.
Sharp Nasal Kent commented at 4/18/2010 3:33:00 PM:
Hey "guesswhat" - do you have a bill number for that Value Added Tax that you claim is coming? To prove it exists and isn't just a figment of Glen Beck's overheated imagination?
Justin commented at 4/19/2010 2:39:00 AM:
@sharp Largest in terms of what exactly? Gotta remember it was a massive merging of all ready existing organizations.
Sharp Nasal Kent commented at 4/19/2010 8:01:00 AM:
Very true, Justin. Very true. (And I misspoke - it's the THIRD largest government agency, not the first.) And yet, did it not represent a massive centralization of federal government authority over our lives? The kind of "loss of liberty" that concerns the tea people?
One can only wonder what they would have said if President Obama had ordered the creation of this department. I'm sure they would have supported him the same way they supported President Bush. No?
Justthinking commented at 4/19/2010 8:29:00 PM:
In taxing the rich, they are the ones who caused this calamity, by thinking of a scheme to take money from the little guy. They should be taxed. The poor have subsidized the rich long enough. It's time for a payback.
WMJ commented at 4/20/2010 2:13:00 PM:
... Already long ago, from when we sold our vote to no man, the People have abdicated our duties; for the People who once upon a time handed out military command, high civil office, legions -- everything, now restrains itself and anxiously hopes for just two things: bread and circuses
Roman poet Juvenal, Satire X (circa 100AD)
walter commented at 4/20/2010 3:51:00 PM:
President Obama was my candidate of last choice for the very reason shown in the various anti-Obama/government posts here and elsewhere.
Despite the mess left behind by those who preceded him that was created over decades, and especially the eight years immediately preceding his taking the oath, Obama has not been in office two years and already people want to demonize him for not straightening out the mess he inherited.
Many who actually hated him and who, under normal circumstances, would much rather die than vote for a man of Obama's background, voted for him because they knew what awaited him and they also knbew that they could atack him and criticize him with impunity and the media, in the main, would do very little to curtail their uncivilized and downright dis-respectfull rants against him, as well as the office he was duly-elected to fill.
No other candidate for the office, had either of them been successful enough to win it, would have been subjected to what this poor, and somewhat naive, but very intelligent and courageous man is made to face on a daily basis. Beyond using him as a scapegoat, opponents have found all kinds of ways to exploit him for fund-raising and to deflect what really happened in America and who really created our dismal state of affairs. The measures being offered by President Obama would be no different from those offered by anyone else, had they been elected, including McCain, Romney, Pauls or the fellow from Arkansas or the woman from Alaska. It goes without saying, Mrs. Clinton would probably have sought to pass laws as similar to those of Obama as anyone. Presidents sometimes follow advice from his appointees; and always the orders of the real powerbrokes, whether nationally or internationally. That would apply to Democrats and Republicans, alike. Independents, just as the name implies, are too free to follow advice or orders from anyone. Thus, as history bears out, none have secured the highest offices, except in a few rare occasions.
The fact that Obama is the face of the necessary measures will make it very convenient for proponents of unbridled capitalism to avoid the truth--that the system failed--and claim that Obama's measures, though eventually successful, were only an aberration and that the old ways really did work. They would argue, if and when, the economy comes back around that, Obama was still wrong, because had they (Repubs) won, the economy would have bounced back sooner and there would have been a lot less pain and suffering. Of course, the falsity of their claim can never be established because they are insistant upon being obstructionist in the meanest and most selfish way possible.
The present is part and parcel of the past. Denying or sugar-coating the past will only distort the future and guarantee that the lessons that we all should have learned from the past are sure to be forgotten and allow for the return of history's ugliest moments. I pray not...we must remember the past social, economic and political events, incidents, episodes whether they be good, bad or ugly!
concerned commented at 4/21/2010 1:30:00 PM:
Republicans are evil creatures. I don't remember republicans being cocerned about the deficit when they got rid of the pay/go rule that created a surplus for Clinton. Or when we invaded and occupied a country that was no threat to us. Or when they passed the medicare part d bill that banned the government from negotiating with pharmaceutical companies to get drugs at half the cost the way the VA does. Or for that matter when they passed a trillion dollar tax cut to the upper 2%. I don't know why anyone thinks they are good with money, except that they keep telling us they are and as stalin said, "a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth." Republicans not interested in helping the little guys. If it doesn't affect THEIR pocket books, then it's a non-issue. Seems the only things the Republicans will NOT say no to are stripper joints.
Sallie commented at 4/21/2010 2:20:00 PM:
The Tea Party consists of a bunch of ingrates, a good number of racists, and a huge number of just plain stupid people who don't even realize that their whole argument makes no sense at all. They are not interested in actual arguments, listening to them and seeing if they even make sense,the substance of them, but instead are steeped in your irrational and misguided anger, which is ultimately the number one trait of a Tea Partier.
JJ commented at 4/22/2010 11:59:00 AM:
Gov't is "intrusive" because your beloved private sector is what screwed the pooch here, and in fact it was gov't pulling BACK from being "intrusive" (regulations) that caused this evil being cast on us, so your argument here is typical of the irrationality of the Tea Party movement, including their shrieking about taxes, which have gone down and are at their lowest rate in 50 years.
Hahahahahaha commented at 4/23/2010 3:39:00 PM:
JJ and justhinking sho got another think a coming when they start paying into Obama's slush VAT fund. That's on top of the income tax but then they probably don't pay any income tax so that's why they think taxes are low. Day needs some scoolin.
observing commented at 4/23/2010 5:07:00 PM:
The Tea Party is a front for the Republican Party. The intelligent, educated people aren't in the Tea Party, they are the people behind the Tea Party, guys like Dick Armey. They are the GOP operativeswho manipulate the undereducated folks into believing their taxes have gone up under President Obama,when the truth is that in '09, they are the lowest they have been in 60 years. The intelligent Tea Party folks are'nt the ones with the signs at the rallys, but rather the guys behind this fake movement who hide in the shadows and coordinate their talking points withthe Republican party to manipulate potential voters.
yourighthaha commented at 4/23/2010 6:42:00 PM:
Yep, you are right haha. observing is probably one of the under educated welfare folks who doesn't pay any income tax too. It's pretty obvious he or she doesn't know his bottom from a hole in the ground.
diamondgirl commented at 4/24/2010 3:44:00 AM:
No lie goes unused in the service of the GOP's cause. They lead their followers' tobelieve their taxes have been raised when in fact they have been lowered. They lead them to believe that Democratic efforts to reign in big banks are infact designed to give the banks more power. And they lead them to believe that the act of government making health insurance affordable to the ones who lack it is a form of "TYRANNY." Blind sheep!
WBRT commented at 4/24/2010 8:48:00 AM:
It is clear why these nuts want "their country back." It is clear why these nuts are suddenly screaming about how evil big government is, when they were mute under Bush.
There's a black guy in the White House. That's their issue. That's their ONLY ISSUE.
concerned commented at 4/25/2010 9:59:00 AM:
Hahahaha, you have forgotten the $700 Billion that we loaned Bush, on top of the untold billions that our economy lost because of his loan. As of last month, only $181 billion has been paid back. Have you ever thought (probably not, because there seems to be nothing between your ears), that Obama will probably have to use that VAT slush fund to pay off Bush's debt too. Think about it!
thinkaboutthis commented at 4/26/2010 7:21:00 AM:
Proverbs 3:21-22 (NIV). My son, preserve sound judgment and discernment, do not let them out of your sight; they will be life for you, an ornament to grace your neck....... Thoughts on This Verse... God used his wisdom to create the cosmos and all that is ...in it. Through his discernment, he appointed to each being and to each item its place in his dazzling display of diversity. He has chosen to share that wisdom and discernment with those who reverence him and search for his wisdom. If we will use that wisdom and discernment we will possess the greatest of all jewels and a blessing that will enrich our life.
1. Susan Estrich: Close to home NATIONAL COLUMNS
2. Michael Gerson: The GOP as the party of reform NATIONAL COLUMNS
3. Lynn Spruill: Lest we forget LOCAL COLUMNS
4. Froma Harrop: Doing well by doing good -- but better by doing bad NATIONAL COLUMNS
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